Whatever you do, I'd start by motherfucking not stereotyping other people yourself if you don't want to be stereotyped yourself.
Your comes across as very judgemental of what you consider to be stereotypical behaviour of gay people ("I don't get fancying stereotypical gay guys" - guess what, stereotypes never apply completely to a person, so you wouldn't have to get that), what you think gay people look like ("I look like a lesbian and I don't wanna!" - there is no way lesbians look like, thank you very much, so no, you don't look like one), and what you think is stereotypical behaviour of women ("faffing" - really? Why are you these people's friend?).
A sensitive straight guy who likes guys?! Probably. What speaks against that? :)
"I don't get fancying stereotypical gay guys" - I never said that.. you did. Ok, but then what does this: "But I also can't relate to being gay or particularly fancying gay guys.. (at least not stereotypically gay guys) " mean, if not what I said? Because I read it as that.
Also, I don't wanna look like a lesbian... am I not allowed to say that?! You're allowed to say whatever you want, but saying that implies that there is one way lesbians look, so saying that makes you sound like a huge stereotyping jerk who can't tell the difference between gender expression/presentation and sexual orientation, or at least doesn't bother to word things more accurately. If that's what you're aiming at, great. Otherwise, a different wording would be in order.
I didn't set out to offend, I was merely voicing the dominant cultural associations that go along with some of these things, and saying that I feel I can't relate to that.I know you didn't mean to offend, and I didn't set out to be offended, but seriously, how did you arrive at the
( ... )
It just means that I find it hard to connect with the perceived culture. Just like I find it hard to access this 'girly' stuff, the stuff that goes with being a woman.. again, this is not to say every girl is girly, of course not.. I'm not for a start! But it's the dominant cultural perception, which permeates every aspect of our lives and makes it so hard to be yourself.
I'm sorry you find what I say so offensive, I truly didn't set out to offend. But these cultural messages are very real, it's what makes us so uncomfortable being who we are in our own bodies. Sorry if you can't see that.
Gay guys like guys. It's not a requirement to like effeminate, flamboyant, macho, or any type of guys. If you're a guy who likes guys, chances are you're gay.
And yeah, you'll probably read as lesbian. When people get to know you the fact that you're a guy will become very clear to them; I've experienced it myself. Do you consider yourself a femme/effeminate guy? Emphasizing that will fuck with how people read you.
Don't start trivializing your girl friends just because you've discovered this part of yourself. (Sorry if that's not the case-- that's just how the post reads.) If you can't connect with them, there are other girls who you can be friends with-- yes, maybe even girly texting ones.
It sounds like you should start hanging out with more gay dudes.
Hey, thank you for your response. I struggle with the idea of seeing myself as a gay man very much but thank you for your words - I shall certainly mull them over.
Yeah i do get read as a lesbian quite a lot, and yes it is stereotypical... but these stereotypes are there, in the surrounding culture. i really didn't mean it offensively at all! I obviously need to work on how I write things!
Also, just so you're aware, I don't trivialize my girl friends at all, in fact pretty much all my friends are girls and I have some wonderful friends - again, must have just been how I wrote it - apologies for that too! :)
I know cis gay guys who don't connect with gay culture. They exist! you don't have to doubt yourself. And it's not your fault you read as a lesbian. I understand.
First off, stop stereotyping queer guys. We aren't all stereotypes.
Try finding some other gay guys (or queer guys, us bi and pan dudes exist too) to spend time with. Few of the queer guys I've dated would qualify as the stereotype you see on TV and yet, yeah, we're all queer like that.
I try mixing it up with more femme guy pieces. My purple and silver shirt is pretty good. And flirting with dudes also helps. But yeah, I do, most often, get read as a lesbian, especially when it's hot. When I can layer more, I get read, slightly more often, as a femme teen guy.
It sounds like you're pretty much just being yourself thus far which is great. Labels do suck. But it's something we all have to put up with.
I think you need to start hanging out with more queer people. It doesn't sound like you're really connecting with your current "friends". So try hanging out on the "scene" a bit and meeting more gay men.
Maybe you're just an atypical gay dude. And as for fancying non-gay dudes.. how do you know they're not gay/bi/pan? Only the typical gay men are noticable as gay. I'm sure there are many non-steriotypical queer men you could feel attracted to.
I would suggest ditching the 'X in a Y body' concept and seeing if that eases your mind any. It works for some people, but I personally found it completely useless.
Thank you - this is really helpful. I think I will probably do this. Even though I feel like a guy (at least part of me does) and I happen to like guys.. I'm not sure/convinced that this therefore makes me a 'gay guy'. It just doesn't feel right to me at all.. Sorry again for offending everyone.
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Your comes across as very judgemental of what you consider to be stereotypical behaviour of gay people ("I don't get fancying stereotypical gay guys" - guess what, stereotypes never apply completely to a person, so you wouldn't have to get that), what you think gay people look like ("I look like a lesbian and I don't wanna!" - there is no way lesbians look like, thank you very much, so no, you don't look like one), and what you think is stereotypical behaviour of women ("faffing" - really? Why are you these people's friend?).
A sensitive straight guy who likes guys?!
Probably. What speaks against that? :)
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Ok, but then what does this: "But I also can't relate to being gay or particularly fancying gay guys.. (at least not stereotypically gay guys)
" mean, if not what I said? Because I read it as that.
Also, I don't wanna look like a lesbian... am I not allowed to say that?!
You're allowed to say whatever you want, but saying that implies that there is one way lesbians look, so saying that makes you sound like a huge stereotyping jerk who can't tell the difference between gender expression/presentation and sexual orientation, or at least doesn't bother to word things more accurately. If that's what you're aiming at, great. Otherwise, a different wording would be in order.
I didn't set out to offend, I was merely voicing the dominant cultural associations that go along with some of these things, and saying that I feel I can't relate to that.I know you didn't mean to offend, and I didn't set out to be offended, but seriously, how did you arrive at the ( ... )
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I'm sorry you find what I say so offensive, I truly didn't set out to offend. But these cultural messages are very real, it's what makes us so uncomfortable being who we are in our own bodies. Sorry if you can't see that.
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And yeah, you'll probably read as lesbian. When people get to know you the fact that you're a guy will become very clear to them; I've experienced it myself. Do you consider yourself a femme/effeminate guy? Emphasizing that will fuck with how people read you.
Don't start trivializing your girl friends just because you've discovered this part of yourself. (Sorry if that's not the case-- that's just how the post reads.) If you can't connect with them, there are other girls who you can be friends with-- yes, maybe even girly texting ones.
It sounds like you should start hanging out with more gay dudes.
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Yep, that's what I thought. Maybe you can connect with them better, OP. :)
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thank you for your response. I struggle with the idea of seeing myself as a gay man very much but thank you for your words - I shall certainly mull them over.
Yeah i do get read as a lesbian quite a lot, and yes it is stereotypical... but these stereotypes are there, in the surrounding culture. i really didn't mean it offensively at all! I obviously need to work on how I write things!
Also, just so you're aware, I don't trivialize my girl friends at all, in fact pretty much all my friends are girls and I have some wonderful friends - again, must have just been how I wrote it - apologies for that too!
:)
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First off, stop stereotyping queer guys. We aren't all stereotypes.
Try finding some other gay guys (or queer guys, us bi and pan dudes exist too) to spend time with. Few of the queer guys I've dated would qualify as the stereotype you see on TV and yet, yeah, we're all queer like that.
I try mixing it up with more femme guy pieces. My purple and silver shirt is pretty good. And flirting with dudes also helps. But yeah, I do, most often, get read as a lesbian, especially when it's hot. When I can layer more, I get read, slightly more often, as a femme teen guy.
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I think you need to start hanging out with more queer people. It doesn't sound like you're really connecting with your current "friends". So try hanging out on the "scene" a bit and meeting more gay men.
Maybe you're just an atypical gay dude. And as for fancying non-gay dudes.. how do you know they're not gay/bi/pan? Only the typical gay men are noticable as gay. I'm sure there are many non-steriotypical queer men you could feel attracted to.
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Sorry again for offending everyone.
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