Time for a poll!

[arch_schatten]

Thanks for your great advice on quitting, flist! I.. m working through it. Mostly in my mind. Urg, I wonder what is it with this.. obstinate, opposed to change, stubborn bull-mind I have. My science heart tells me that horoscopes really make no sense, and then I come off as the most Taurean of all Tauruses and I have to grumble lowly to myself...

Comments

[vespa331]

I agree with all of that. Though I think, in general, women are more protective (regardless of culture). It might be the whole mama bear thing, you know? Ask anyone which they'd rather meet in a forest, a lone male grizzly or a female grizzly who thinks you were messing with her cubs, and I'm pretty sure they'd choose the male. Also there's the thing that men will get in more small altercations, but when women fight it's more vicious.

(A fellow intern in DC did her paper on Women and Genocide. The thesis was that while there are way more men than women involved in perpetrating genocide, the few women who do get involved are far more brutal than the men, and that perhaps it was because women bottle up their feelings and then let them loose all at once).I think we're all fierce inside, but generally keep it under wraps because...I dunno, probably societal pressure, or maybe we're just more mature than guys. Regardless, we're used to suppressing our angry/dark/violent feelings, but if someone we love is threatened I think that control

[arch_schatten]

women are more vigilant and take things more seriously than men (so a guy sees a harmless joke and a girl sees a possible threat), and then combine that with a sense of togetherness, that women are more often victims so we need to look out for each other - put all that together and you get a chick ready to kick some serious ass when her girl friends are threatened.I think that might be exactly what makes us more likely to react en masse to something we see as a threat while men cower back saying 'woah, crazy bitches'. They don't see how their joke is actually a threat -all part of cultural differences that I think we as women need to breach to explain it to them. They won't get it on their own because they are never in such a situation, and most (decent) guys never intend to scare you like that. Like you say, they don't notice they are being assholes and it comes to us to bring it to light

[vespa331]

I'm so proud of you and your work-sister for taming the lion's den! I have to say, I'm rather curious as to the details. :D What did you guys saaaay? Though it probably would lose something in translation.

Yay that you have at least one decent guy on your side. :) There are definitely a lot of good guys out there, they just...don't stand out as much as the assholes I guess.

I have to tolerate all kinds of unconscious sexismYa know, in a way that's the worst kind, when they're just so fucking dense. I noticed it a looooot in Costa Ric - guys that, to me, seemed to be totally out of control, but they thought they were acting perfectly civil. I remember one of our teachers, who to be fair was a very classy guy, said that Latin men were very romantic. All the girls in the class were like "Whaaaat? Are you insane?!" and we tried in broken Spanish to explain why NO, not so much feeling the romance in the catcalling and leg-humping. Poor guy looked so baffled, not by our crappy Spanish but by the idea that women weren't swooning over the

[schala_kid]

Usually when someone insults me I can insult them back without losing my cool, I can really take a bunch of crap and dish it out with no problem. But when people touch my friends and family I will become angry and can getmore personal but I try not to lose my cool... As a matter in fact the one time I lost my temper was when this one guy started bullying me during middle school, he was an idiot and most of the time I ignored him but this one time during assembly he got to my face and made obscene gestures with his tongue and...Oh god he got so close to me that I just fucking lost it... I mean I crotch kicked him and when he went down I jumped on him and started punching him like crazy, it was so bad that I had blood in my fists and had to be pried off by the teacher and he was crying. He never bothered me again but my love life got ruined for awhile because guys thought I was a psycho-bitch (the only reason I didn't get the mari-macha title was because I was a pretty feminine girl).

I'm not sure guys do that on behalf of other male

[vespa331]

What's a mari-macha? Is it like "macho chick" or something?

Curiously I've seen that when it's girl vs. girl guys tend to back off and will only get involved if it turns ugly.
Hm, good point, I've noticed that too. Guys might just be cowards. :D They're certainly more willing to argue/fight with another guy than a girl. Maybe girl vs. girl is seen as less of a threat than guy vs. girl. Ooooor maybe, in a guy's case, it's more about being possessive than being protective. :P
I think all of the above really. And also that was Hella generalized, sorry to all the decent guys out there.

[vespa331]

*I mean that my statement was generalized, not yours.

Oops late reply!!

[schala_kid]

I understood what you meant :)

And Mari-macha is a Mexican slang for dyke or a manly woman.

[arch_schatten]

I just.. can't seem to keep my cool when people close to me are under attack. I have gone pretty far to protect them, and would probably be willing to go even further. No way in hell they can get away with it.

I'm still wondering if guys act the same way...

[rocaw]

I think most people are able to withstand more when it's directed at them, than at a friend or family member. When that happens, it's like the gloves come off! But guys just tend to laugh at their guy friends, saying they got punked or something. They'll make fun of them for days on end! ;)

I am sorry your male co-worker was out of line though and I hope that from now on he'll remember his manners at least, since it's kind of hard for people to become enlightened overnight. =/

[arch_schatten]

LOL, it's true, guys tend to just laugh it off, though I'm not sure what triggers the 'no one messes with my bros' kind of attitude that make them go hit other people. I have only seen that happen a couple of times, and I'm not sure I know why it happens sometimes and not others! Is that a less mature kind of reaction, and thus tends to happen when they are younger? or what?

He.. didn't get a clue and I had another, more frontal confrontation with his this week. I think after this things will get more respectful, though right now it's just really awkward because I'm 'the bad one' for reprehending him in public. He's acting the victim, though as you can guess, I don't care very much for it!

[taro_twist]

I feel like it might be an extension of the whole thing where it's easy to look at a friend and recognize all their awesome qualities, but when we look at ourselves it's more natural to be self-deprecating? Like ... when something wrong happens to a loved one, no one's going to deny that it's the Right Thing to stand up for them, but if something happens to us and we get angry, people might just think we're being angry bitches

[arch_schatten]

I think you're right there! I think, when we get offended, sometimes we feel like we.. deserve it? in some weird, horrible dysfunctional way, I think it's very plausible. But no way our wonderful friends could be what others are calling them, thus we won't stand for it... so yeah, I think the connection makes sense outside your head as well! good observation, sister. It could also have to do with how men's egos are better developed and are less likely to feel like they deserve insult -a lot of them do feel like that, but usually women are conditioned to feel like that, while men aren't

[vespa331]

What are the sexual harassment laws where you are? Here you can (theoretically) report sexual harassment to your boss, and boss should take care of it without you having to worry about any negative consequences. I think it was fine of you to bring it up right to the guy's face at first and I think that'll have a more lasting impact on everyone, but if it's creating a bad environment for you then next time you might need to just say "Fuck it, you were warned" and go to the boss. If your boss blows you off...might be time to take that job in Marcela's city. You're right, you don't need to put up with that shit.