Time for a poll!

[arch_schatten]

Thanks for your great advice on quitting, flist! I.. m working through it. Mostly in my mind. Urg, I wonder what is it with this.. obstinate, opposed to change, stubborn bull-mind I have. My science heart tells me that horoscopes really make no sense, and then I come off as the most Taurean of all Tauruses and I have to grumble lowly to myself...

Comments

[taro_twist]

I feel like it might be an extension of the whole thing where it's easy to look at a friend and recognize all their awesome qualities, but when we look at ourselves it's more natural to be self-deprecating? Like ... when something wrong happens to a loved one, no one's going to deny that it's the Right Thing to stand up for them, but if something happens to us and we get angry, people might just think we're being angry bitches.

Hmm ... this connection made sense in my head but maybe not so much outloud! I guess for me at least, I get equally angry when people wrong me vs. my loved ones, but I feel more justified defending my loved ones (and often will just let it go if it's myself). Sort of like, I feel like it's socially acceptable (and expected) to defend someone else, but if I defend myself then I feel like I'm being uptight or can't take a joke or something like that.

But go you for standing up for your work-sister! I'm sorry you work with such jerks, but it takes women like you to teach them a lesson. (And I do hope that ass has learned his lesson after that episode!)

I work with all guys, and though they don't make any asshole-objectifying remarks, they do sometimes make those lame "women belong in the kitchen" jokes. They are all married/engaged to strong, intelligent women who could kick their butts, so I don't believe they take themselves seriously. It's kind of weird, though ... I feel like I am shaming my gender if I just laugh it off, but I'm not so good in the witty comeback department, and it's not offensive enough (or frequent enough) to get genuinely angry over. I need more female coworkers to even the playing field, lol.

[arch_schatten]

I think you're right there! I think, when we get offended, sometimes we feel like we.. deserve it? in some weird, horrible dysfunctional way, I think it's very plausible. But no way our wonderful friends could be what others are calling them, thus we won't stand for it... so yeah, I think the connection makes sense outside your head as well! good observation, sister. It could also have to do with how men's egos are better developed and are less likely to feel like they deserve insult -a lot of them do feel like that, but usually women are conditioned to feel like that, while men aren't.

The ass didn't learn his lesson. I wasn't very clear on what exactly bothered me, just that I thought he was out of line, so we had another run in last week and I was much more clear and vocal -which ended up sort of verbally castrating him in front of everyone else, which I know will be problematic and will cause me further problems. But.. I didn't want to stand that, and I had every right not to. So. Whatever comes, I'll face it.

Isn't it weird? My coworkers are also all married to very strong and independent women, and it's very clear that their wives are the ones with the pants in their relationship, and yet they do tend to make stupid jokes. I know they are jokes, but I also know they are jokes their wives won't stand for. I guess they see work as the place where they can be free of those restrictions, but the truth is that work is not the place or such things. Out with their friends, sure, but there we're coworkers and I don't have to stand that. It's hard to take a stand in such things because, like you say, I know it's just jokes and it's not offensive enough all the time, but.. these two guys have been making me uncomfortable for quite a while. I don't mind the jokes of all my other coworkers, they are a lot tamer, but those two have no sense of appropriate boundaries... You know, talking about this with you has made me see my own feelings about this a lot clearer! thanks! It's hard to examine why some things bother me and why others don't, but I think it's that some of them treat the workplace as a workplace, and others treat the workplace as a bar. Which it is not.

[vespa331]

What are the sexual harassment laws where you are? Here you can (theoretically) report sexual harassment to your boss, and boss should take care of it without you having to worry about any negative consequences. I think it was fine of you to bring it up right to the guy's face at first and I think that'll have a more lasting impact on everyone, but if it's creating a bad environment for you then next time you might need to just say "Fuck it, you were warned" and go to the boss. If your boss blows you off...might be time to take that job in Marcela's city. You're right, you don't need to put up with that shit.