Time for a poll!

[arch_schatten]

Thanks for your great advice on quitting, flist! I.. m working through it. Mostly in my mind. Urg, I wonder what is it with this.. obstinate, opposed to change, stubborn bull-mind I have. My science heart tells me that horoscopes really make no sense, and then I come off as the most Taurean of all Tauruses and I have to grumble lowly to myself...

Comments

[arch_schatten]

women are more vigilant and take things more seriously than men (so a guy sees a harmless joke and a girl sees a possible threat), and then combine that with a sense of togetherness, that women are more often victims so we need to look out for each other - put all that together and you get a chick ready to kick some serious ass when her girl friends are threatened.

I think that might be exactly what makes us more likely to react en masse to something we see as a threat while men cower back saying 'woah, crazy bitches'. They don't see how their joke is actually a threat -all part of cultural differences that I think we as women need to breach to explain it to them. They won't get it on their own because they are never in such a situation, and most (decent) guys never intend to scare you like that. Like you say, they don't notice they are being assholes and it comes to us to bring it to light.

I had another altercation with the same coworker this past week, and it has made things very uncomfortable for me this past days because I have broken their male comfort, but my work-sister has also got my back and we're both standing up more for each other now, and the boys are walking on eggshells. It's awkward, but definitely important. Some of them will never get it -one of them was all miffed like I had broken his favorite toy, and the other one acted like he was the victim for being castrated in public by the baby girl of the department- but the rest of the guys -the ones not under direct attack- got the message pretty well, and in a office of 3 women and 9 men, I think I can handle two miffled jackasses as long as the other 7 get a clear idea of what boundaries are supposed to be.

It's so hard, though, to be the voice that speaks up, especially given how much I hate confrontation. But I'm getting much better at it. I have to tolerate all kinds of unconscious sexism, and I know I can only attack that one with subtlety and education, and that will take a while, but open attacks I will respond with equally open stop signs. We can't let such things be perpetuated.

I do think women are more viciously protective -in the specific case of the work problem, there's this coworker who treats me as his baby sister, and he will stay out of the discussions until he sees the right time to back me up, and then gives me his tacit support. Given that he's usually the alpha male of the pack, this further humiliates the other males, which.. is problematic -makes problems bigger than they are!- but it also makes me feel like they aren't all scum.

People are complicateeeedddddd.

[vespa331]

I'm so proud of you and your work-sister for taming the lion's den! I have to say, I'm rather curious as to the details. :D What did you guys saaaay? Though it probably would lose something in translation.

Yay that you have at least one decent guy on your side. :) There are definitely a lot of good guys out there, they just...don't stand out as much as the assholes I guess.

I have to tolerate all kinds of unconscious sexism
Ya know, in a way that's the worst kind, when they're just so fucking dense. I noticed it a looooot in Costa Ric - guys that, to me, seemed to be totally out of control, but they thought they were acting perfectly civil. I remember one of our teachers, who to be fair was a very classy guy, said that Latin men were very romantic. All the girls in the class were like "Whaaaat? Are you insane?!" and we tried in broken Spanish to explain why NO, not so much feeling the romance in the catcalling and leg-humping. Poor guy looked so baffled, not by our crappy Spanish but by the idea that women weren't swooning over the irresistible charms of Costa Rican men. Oi. When it's that ingrained, how do you even fight it? That's one of my biggest issues when traveling - it's totally not my place to try and change any culture that I visit so I try to just grit my teeth and bear it, but I just can't wedge myself into that subserviently slutty role that they seem to want me to play. Which is part of why I haven't gone to any Islamic countries yet, cause I will start throwin punches.

Sometimes I think that all men are really like that and some just hide it better, which is a very sad thought. :( Most of the time I know that's not true, but...sometimes...