Wank. That I should not be posting about. Especially on Vacation. Whatever.

[tahirire]

I'm laying out my opinion on SOME of the rape/misogyny wank for once and for all. And I'm pulling out my Yoruichi icon, because she's the most bad-ass chick I know. Spoilers for 6.10.

Comments

[blackjedii]

Just passing through but -
Me personally? I'm not offended by the fact that Meg was tortured. I am bothered by the fact that she was completely naked but more than that, I was bothered by the pretty blatant place where she was being tortured. It wasn't just knife going in skin, but knife going in places where knives do not need to go.

THAT I have a problem with; and more than that, I have a serious problem that they went there in the first place. Supernatural's always been about the gore, but the gore was always (to me at least) over the top enough and absurd enough that it was fictional. This was a little too personal.

Torture isn't a big deal in this show, and hasn't been for years. (Especially given the flippant way that Dean can both point out how damaging it was for him and then turn around and do some pretty nasty things to monsters.) But this was just too much, and I'm kind of amazed that they'd go there at all.

[tahirire]

And that's a completely legitimate opinion to have, for sure. (I mean, knives going where they aren't supposed to go is sort of the point of torture, but I do see what you mean.)

My thing is - ok, THAT I can get - but you're the first person I've actually seen say anything about that. I tend to scream at fandom at large in my rants. :)

[blackjedii]

Most of the corners I've seen have been mainly cursing the Heavens about how terrible the episode itself was, and while there was plenty of anger directed at naked!Meg/Ruby, very little of it was followed by mentions of objectifying the boys in a similar manner.

Of course it's mainly been spn_heavymeta where ~most~ are reasonable, and TWoP where the vitriol either runs in the "I hate this show because it sucks now" / "I hate this show because it's so MEAN TO DEAN" variety.

[tahirire]

Lol, yeah, I avoid TWoP like it has the plague. One thing to be said about this fandom - there are many, many corners and lots and LOTS of opinions. Which really is a good thing. Just sometimes ... *headshake*

[dharkapparition]

Word.

[tahirire]

Lol.

[authoressnebula]

No hating or opposing here. None of the show bothered me any more than it usually does (obviously, torture and blood are not good things in real life, but I've gotten kinda used to seeing them, fictionally, on Supernatural, just to clarify): I was actually just surprised that it got past screening, mainly because I expected the network to be all about the mysoginistic aspect. I also truly felt my heart wrenched in the torture scene. Not for Meg, mind, because she's had worse in Hell, I'm sure, but for the body she's wearing. Meg mentioned she'd already had worse done to her in her lifetime, and it was just...sad. The boys get so wrapped up in the demon aspect these days that they forget that there's a living and breathing human being in there somewhere. At least show gave a tiny nod to that

[tahirire]

I liked the scene, because Meg was a total badass and it reminded me of when Dean was torturing Alistair but Alistair was totally winning. I love Meg. ♥

But yes, I agree that it was horrible for the girl. Meg doesn't really have an MO of killing her hosts, does she. *sadface*

The Buffy fandom is STILL wanking? O.O

*hugs back*

[authoressnebula]

Meg is hands down perhaps my favorite villain, right next to Azazel. ♥ She is utterly fantastic. While Nicki Aycox will forever be the best Meg, I think this one's actually doing a great job. And then Jared knocked it out of the park, of course. :P

Oh god yes: the comics for season 8 just finished, and OMFG the wank, it pours out of my eaaaaaaaaars. They were wanking before that, though, about characters and the Spike!hate and the Angel!bashing and the Willow!lameness and I couldn't understand it. Seriously? WTF people?

~Nebula

[feliciakw]

Why have I not friended you yet? I usually wander over from links elsewhere.

I don't need the guys to be naked for me to enjoy my show. And I'd like to know if there are other people who think so, too.

I'll say this: I don't need it in Show, but I do appreciate it when it happens. Particularly given the fact that it usually makes sense within the scene or context. I think the only time we've seen Dean shirtless is when he's making love. Totally understandable context

[tahirire]

We aren't friends? *blink* LOL, we talk so much I thought we were.

I'll say this: I don't need it in Show, but I do appreciate it when it happens.

Well, YEAH, I'm not going to be like EW SAM'S RIPPLING BICEPS, LOOK AWAAAAY. That would be silly. I agree with you - I appreciate that it only happens in logical and realistic situations, and I don't need it to be every 2 seconds, like say, how Smallville does it.

I LIKED the scene, because Meg was a total badass and reminded me of when Dean was torturing Alistair but Alistair was totally winning. I love Meg. ♥

[little_tristan]

I was pretty squicked by the Meg torture, especially the knife rape bit, which was just awful, but that's my reaction to torture in general. I love Show, but I always close my eyes for those parts. Can't even watch most of the ep where Dean is carving up Alistair.

But what made the Meg thing so much worse was that she had to be naked and the men never are. They started down that road with the topless Ruby torture a while back, and this was so obviously just taking the next step for the viewers, not because it made sense for the plot or the characters. Like the demons would care enough to cover her nips just so? I'd buy that if they naked-tortured the men and strapped them down in EXACTLY the same way. Until then, I'm not prepared to call it misogyny, but I will say that they aren't thinking it through from the characters' perspective. It looks more like an utterly shameless attempt to court male viewers.

Main point? Less torture overall would be good. It's lost its shock value, and the time would be better spent on plot

[tahirire]

Show manages to gross me out on a pretty regular basis, but I expect that going in, you know? It's a HORROR show. It's hard to remember that sometimes because it's so emotional and we're so attached, but it's still true

[little_tristan]

All good points. Although having a character take her clothes off because the actress is willing to, when other characters don't because the actors aren't, still seems oddly unequal. Because Show should be more about the characters than the actors, so I'd say in that case, the girls could keep their clothes on. The writers can dictate that much

[tahirire]

Lol, we all have our pet Things We'd Wank About. ;)