Wank. That I should not be posting about. Especially on Vacation. Whatever.
I'm laying out my opinion on SOME of the rape/misogyny wank for once and for all. And I'm pulling out my Yoruichi icon, because she's the most bad-ass chick I know. Spoilers for 6.10.
This fandom used to make me smile at least 4 times a day. Now, things that would have made me smile then, like a good fic or meta, just make me sigh in relief that it wasn't wanky, send the author or writer a barely coherent 'THANK YOU' and move on. I've had it with this fandom's popular debate 'issues'. Most recently, I'm tired of people pretending to care about serious issues and screaming MISOGYNY when all they REALLY want is MORE gratuitousness .... as long as it's from the guys. (Yes, this is about people being 'shocked' by the 'unnecessary nudity' of Meg's torture scene.)
This is the attitude I've seen in a lot (NOT ALL, and I'll get to that later) of places, but I picked this example to showcase because it IS anonymous. Apparently, people are more apt to tell the truth that way? IDK.
I copypasta.
http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13057363#t13057363
Fuck, I loved this episode. I really wish they hadn't nude tortured Meg, but other than that, I loved it. I loved Dean getting hardcore on family members, Sam chewing his arm open and threatening to kill an angel, Cas being irritated, dismissive, turned on, and effective. Meg for being her wriggly little surviving self.
Crowley for actually dying! Bye, Mark Sheppard, how briefly we knew ye. Nobody kills Mark Sheppard's characters. Sampa for stepping up and revealing he's crazier than the Winchesters. Good marriage choice, that one. Go, get on the wrong side of Dean. Maybe you'll bump into a couple guys named Roy and Walt when you're rebuilding your team...wait...what are you going to do now, huh?
That other Campbell dude for finally dying. Whew! Gwen, you can live. I don't hold it against you.
Sam for wising up about the soul thing and walking away.
Dean for caring that a) there's a soul that's hurting and b) needing his brother back like nobody's business.
Sam for still being hyperfocused on Dean's wellbeing without the soul.
Sam and Cas for pretending not to be leveraging death threats at each other so they can make nice in front of Dean.
Cas for trying out the pizza stuff, being pretty damned good at it, but not seeing an immediate need to, you know, get spanking.
I just had fun.
Less naked binding of women, please, more naked binding of men.
I also didn't see Dean's comment as a rape threat. Meg was into Cas, and he was going to give them a chance to consummate it, and then gank her. Also, she spoke like he hadn't stuck the knife anywhere fun yet. So it was just garden variety demon torture. You know, the UNPROBLEMATIC kind.
Sam taking off his shoes isn't enough Winchester skin for people, apparently. This person agrees that they shouldn't have nude tortured Meg, but it'd be ok if it had been Sam, back in 4.21, or Dean? http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13063763#t13063763
I like you, nonnie. And I agree.
(But the naked torture can stay as long as the dudes can get in on the action too.)
At least this person is ok with it in general instead of clinging to a vicious, Sam-and-Dean-objectifying double standard. That is logic I can at least understand - that it should be both or neither. http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13066323#t13066323
Hell yes, I loved this episode too! I'm even okay with the naked torture; even though I agree that there should be naked men for balance, I like naked women too.
Sadly, though, there is not a SINGLE person in this entire master thread that stood up and said "No, I think that the nude-on-the-rack thing is gratuitous no matter who is being tortured, because what is 'shocking' and 'appalling' about it is the act itself and not just because Ruby and Meg are women." So maybe nobody wants to stand up for the guys because they are obviously already standing up for themselves? *mind!boggles*
All I'm saying is I wish the people constantly wanking on the 'SPN is so misogynistic' bandwagon would quit hiding behind the lie that they are legitimately offended by how Show does things.
FIRST because it is an insult to people who have true trigger issues and are voicing a REAL and HONEST complaint. (There aren't nearly as many of those people as I thought there were, if NO ONE spoke up in this entire thread against rape/forced nudity as a WHOLE and not just as it pertains to women.)
Second, that because they can't own up to their own shallow tendencies, they are giving my show a bad reputation by hiding behind a much larger issue and raising such hell about it.
If you really have trigger issues and Show is constantly squicking you, I'm sorry for that, truly. I can't say that Show affects me in the same way that it affects you, so I can't say I see exactly where you are coming from with any kind of accuracy, but it doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic. There are some things that people should never have to relive, even only mentally, and it is up to those people to decide how much they want to interface with anything that brings those memories to surface. For myself, it is simply a show that I enjoy and I don't generally find it to be problematic or unbelievable as far as sci-fi/horror goes.
But if you are just in this wank to make noise? And all you really want is to turn my show into Gossip Girl or True Blood? GET. THE FUCK.OUT.
Feel free to hate me in the comments. OR, feel free oppose this double-standard with me. I don't need the guys to be naked for me to enjoy my show. And I'd like to know if there are other people who think so, too.
Seacrest out.
ETA: Because I laughed over the sheer ridiculousness of this for like, an hour.
So, of course the anons (Who always live up to my expectations in every way) discussed this post at some confused length not too long after I posted it.Apparently this person thinks I am dumb for rolling my eyes at people that bitch about misogyny but think that misandry is ok. In fact, their opinion seems to be that sexism against men is not as problematic. Oh. My bad, I thought sexism is sexism no matter who it is against.
Dear Anon, one of the people I'm rolling my eyes at seems to be you. Thanks for proving my point even further, y'all make my life so easy. (Italics are the anon's, not mine.)
http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/4112.html?thread=13269776#t13269776Yeah. This is really dumb. There is a reason that people get particularly upset over the gratuitous treatment of women, and it's not only because they want more of that treatment lobbed at the men for their fap fantasies. Everything isn't equal here. Sexism against men isn't as problematic as sexism against women, because sexism against men isn't institutional.
Also, I learned that exposure to me can apparently be fatal. So, you know - run away now, or risk catching the Croats.
This fandom used to make me smile at least 4 times a day. Now, things that would have made me smile then, like a good fic or meta, just make me sigh in relief that it wasn't wanky, send the author or writer a barely coherent 'THANK YOU' and move on. I've had it with this fandom's popular debate 'issues'. Most recently, I'm tired of people pretending to care about serious issues and screaming MISOGYNY when all they REALLY want is MORE gratuitousness .... as long as it's from the guys. (Yes, this is about people being 'shocked' by the 'unnecessary nudity' of Meg's torture scene.)
This is the attitude I've seen in a lot (NOT ALL, and I'll get to that later) of places, but I picked this example to showcase because it IS anonymous. Apparently, people are more apt to tell the truth that way? IDK.
I copypasta.
http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13057363#t13057363
Fuck, I loved this episode. I really wish they hadn't nude tortured Meg, but other than that, I loved it. I loved Dean getting hardcore on family members, Sam chewing his arm open and threatening to kill an angel, Cas being irritated, dismissive, turned on, and effective. Meg for being her wriggly little surviving self.
Crowley for actually dying! Bye, Mark Sheppard, how briefly we knew ye. Nobody kills Mark Sheppard's characters. Sampa for stepping up and revealing he's crazier than the Winchesters. Good marriage choice, that one. Go, get on the wrong side of Dean. Maybe you'll bump into a couple guys named Roy and Walt when you're rebuilding your team...wait...what are you going to do now, huh?
That other Campbell dude for finally dying. Whew! Gwen, you can live. I don't hold it against you.
Sam for wising up about the soul thing and walking away.
Dean for caring that a) there's a soul that's hurting and b) needing his brother back like nobody's business.
Sam for still being hyperfocused on Dean's wellbeing without the soul.
Sam and Cas for pretending not to be leveraging death threats at each other so they can make nice in front of Dean.
Cas for trying out the pizza stuff, being pretty damned good at it, but not seeing an immediate need to, you know, get spanking.
I just had fun.
Less naked binding of women, please, more naked binding of men.
I also didn't see Dean's comment as a rape threat. Meg was into Cas, and he was going to give them a chance to consummate it, and then gank her. Also, she spoke like he hadn't stuck the knife anywhere fun yet. So it was just garden variety demon torture. You know, the UNPROBLEMATIC kind.
Sam taking off his shoes isn't enough Winchester skin for people, apparently. This person agrees that they shouldn't have nude tortured Meg, but it'd be ok if it had been Sam, back in 4.21, or Dean? http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13063763#t13063763
I like you, nonnie. And I agree.
(But the naked torture can stay as long as the dudes can get in on the action too.)
At least this person is ok with it in general instead of clinging to a vicious, Sam-and-Dean-objectifying double standard. That is logic I can at least understand - that it should be both or neither. http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/3923.html?thread=13066323#t13066323
Hell yes, I loved this episode too! I'm even okay with the naked torture; even though I agree that there should be naked men for balance, I like naked women too.
Sadly, though, there is not a SINGLE person in this entire master thread that stood up and said "No, I think that the nude-on-the-rack thing is gratuitous no matter who is being tortured, because what is 'shocking' and 'appalling' about it is the act itself and not just because Ruby and Meg are women." So maybe nobody wants to stand up for the guys because they are obviously already standing up for themselves? *mind!boggles*
All I'm saying is I wish the people constantly wanking on the 'SPN is so misogynistic' bandwagon would quit hiding behind the lie that they are legitimately offended by how Show does things.
FIRST because it is an insult to people who have true trigger issues and are voicing a REAL and HONEST complaint. (There aren't nearly as many of those people as I thought there were, if NO ONE spoke up in this entire thread against rape/forced nudity as a WHOLE and not just as it pertains to women.)
Second, that because they can't own up to their own shallow tendencies, they are giving my show a bad reputation by hiding behind a much larger issue and raising such hell about it.
If you really have trigger issues and Show is constantly squicking you, I'm sorry for that, truly. I can't say that Show affects me in the same way that it affects you, so I can't say I see exactly where you are coming from with any kind of accuracy, but it doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic. There are some things that people should never have to relive, even only mentally, and it is up to those people to decide how much they want to interface with anything that brings those memories to surface. For myself, it is simply a show that I enjoy and I don't generally find it to be problematic or unbelievable as far as sci-fi/horror goes.
But if you are just in this wank to make noise? And all you really want is to turn my show into Gossip Girl or True Blood? GET. THE FUCK.OUT.
Feel free to hate me in the comments. OR, feel free oppose this double-standard with me. I don't need the guys to be naked for me to enjoy my show. And I'd like to know if there are other people who think so, too.
Seacrest out.
ETA: Because I laughed over the sheer ridiculousness of this for like, an hour.
So, of course the anons (Who always live up to my expectations in every way) discussed this post at some confused length not too long after I posted it.Apparently this person thinks I am dumb for rolling my eyes at people that bitch about misogyny but think that misandry is ok. In fact, their opinion seems to be that sexism against men is not as problematic. Oh. My bad, I thought sexism is sexism no matter who it is against.
Dear Anon, one of the people I'm rolling my eyes at seems to be you. Thanks for proving my point even further, y'all make my life so easy. (Italics are the anon's, not mine.)
http://spnanonhaven.livejournal.com/4112.html?thread=13269776#t13269776Yeah. This is really dumb. There is a reason that people get particularly upset over the gratuitous treatment of women, and it's not only because they want more of that treatment lobbed at the men for their fap fantasies. Everything isn't equal here. Sexism against men isn't as problematic as sexism against women, because sexism against men isn't institutional.
Also, I learned that exposure to me can apparently be fatal. So, you know - run away now, or risk catching the Croats.