Motherless.

[phirefly]

I've been meaning to post about this since Friday, in particular because I could use some outside perspective which doesn't amount to hollow platitudes like 'give her time' which doesn't do anyone any good. I just haven't known what to say. I still don't. There's no way to do this succinctly. The problem itself is not succinct. It's not neat and

Comments

[withoutwords]

*hugs* You already know this, but your mom desperately needs professional help. Is there a therapist or other medical person that you could go to for advice on how to deal with the situation, what you can do to help, if anything? That's what I'd do...try to talk to someone in the field who's dealt with this type of behavior before...

I'm sorry things have turned out this way. *hugs*

[phirefly]

That's pretty close to what I've been thinking, too, but I don't know anyone in the appropriate field. It's been years since I, personally, have seen anyone. It'd come down to cold calling, and I'm not sure that's a great idea either. I think we could seriously benefit, too, from family therapy as we've obviously got some issues to work out and some big disparities in how we all communicate, but I don't think she's in a place to agree with that right now. I'm not even sure my brother is as he feels he's already done his part. I think he's pissed that I'm just getting caught up now, and I can understand that. Family therapy's the longterm goal, it seems. Getting mom help more immediately is the trickier problem.

[doc_smiley]

Given my assessment of your mother from this post: if you're going to try and get her professional help it might be better to pitch it as family or group therapy, emphasize that you need it rather than her, but you need her there. Trying to get someone to go to a mental health professional can really seem like a slap in the face.

All that said, I know she's your mom and you love her. In your position however I probably would have done the same thing. "The only thing which matters, in my mind, is me" this is about the most horrible statement I can think of for any parent to say to their child.

I know the fallout sucks, but I feel you made the right move to call her on her shit (timing non-withstanding).

I've started living with two things in mind:
"Today's just an ordinary day, it's all my state of mind."
"Other people's bad behavior is no excuse for mine."

[phirefly]

That second one is exactly what I said to Eric that night when he started making sweeping statements about how he was going to retaliate or how he wasn't going to play nice until she did. We're each responsible for our own actions. Just because someone else is being an ass doesn't mean we should be, too.

I don't know if I have the humility in me to convincingly sell the idea of family therapy being primarily for my benefit. Sure, it might get me my mom back and, sure, I might need help communicating with her, but I don't know if I could let myself make it seem like she's alright and I'm not. Pride maybe. Self-righteousness, too. Bleh.

And I'd go so far as to say that it's one of the worst things a person can say to anyone, period. I remember thinking at the time, "I know solipsists who are more concerned with the people around them than you are!" but I didn't want to have to explain that :P

Sorry we didn't connect over Thanksgiving weekend. As you can see, things were a bit weird.

[evcelt]

That sounds like an awful situation

[phirefly]

I know I can't fix her, but I still feel obligated to get things started, to shove things in what'll hopefully prove to be the right direction. I feel like I need to be the one to begin fixing our relationships, to restore communication.

It's a lot easier to help someone who wants to be help, who's cognizant of the concept that there's a problem at all. That seems a huge hurdle. She seems convinced that the only failing she has is raising such ungrateful kids :/

I'm sure there's more I can do than I have done, than I am doing now. I just don't know what. I don't think I can let not knowing what to do remain an excuse for inaction, though. Not for very long, anyway.

[evcelt]

It's a lot easier to help someone who wants to be help, who's cognizant of the concept that there's a problem at all.

Ay, there's the rub. I don't know how to address that. I'm not fond of "interventions"...

[angus_mcnitt]

I've been hearing "Nic's Mom" stories for a while. I agree, she is getting worse. You and Eric may have precipitated this, but not intentionally. You have both struggled to overcome and build lives for yourselves. As time has gone on you have found your own happiness, and I think this frustrates her. I remember all the petty comments and snide remarks at your wedding from her. I've heard about things from Eric's. I really believe that your striving for success has upset her. If it is from anger at accomplishing what she hasn't, or that your requiring her help (as opposed to just wanting her company), I can't say

[phirefly]

It's not quite that easy. I love her. More than damned near anything else. She's someone I truly and genuinely consider essential to my existence. So, out of my own self-interest, I need to fix things, I need to help her. A sane person does not say the things she's said. She needs help.

[angus_mcnitt]

I agree she needs help, but she has to realise it. If you force it, it will only break further. She'll just drive you away harder.

Your job now is the help her fix it. It's up to her to realise that it needs to be fixed.

I have no doubt that if she does decide to, you will right there to help.

[doc_smiley]

All this talk of having to want to change just keeps reminding me of an AA meeting. The first step is to admit you have a problem.

[storiedman]

Start by communicating again. Nothing will happen till you start talking again. Expect to get a blast of invective. You'll have to weather it. You'll have to apologize, probably repeatedly. You'll have to apologize because that what she needs to hear before you'll make any kind of progress forward. You'll have to take your self out of it as much as possible by which I mean your feelings/ego, etc. Otherwise, you'll get drawn back in. You have to be the adult.

None of this of course is fair or just but necessary to regain some emotional capital. Then maybe you can get her to see what her behavior is doing to her children. Maybe then she'll feel a little more willing to let her guard down.

But silence will not make this better. A cool off period, sure, but don't wait.

Best of luck.

[phirefly]

What I'm struggling with, besides summoning up the bravery to face the expected response, is how to apologize without it seeming like I'm condoning her behavior. Sure, that's partly ego--I can be so very self-righteous--but it's greatly just a desire to not set us too far back, for undoing what little good came out of the blow-out. Things which needed to be said were said... just not in a way which was particularly productive.

Thank you, though. Very sound advice.

[storiedman]

Think of it as a rescue, you are rescuing her from herself. That means you are taking action to help someone in need and makes it less about you.

As for the apology, don't be specific. You're apologizing because that's what she needs to hear. And you're not apologizing for anything you did or didn't do, it isn't about the merits, it's to show that you want to regain her trust. In fact, you don't want to get into the specifics, that's for later when she feels less inclined to fight. This is just you reaching out to her.

And it'll take time. Be patient. It's hard as hell to patient with an unreasonable person who is in attack mode, but you need to take the level down slowly. But it will come down. Odds are, she needs you more than you need her right now, but she'll never admit it.

Take care and I hope this helps.

[phirefly]

How does lying to her help regain her trust, though? I know that with any apology I make there will be an assumption that I'm conceding that I'm wrong and she's right. Allowing that to be where we begin feels insincere and, certainly, inaccurate.

Mind you, I have already apologized, and I left it somewhat nebulous. I emailed her today, kept it brief. Reminded her that she's loved and that she's been a good mother--she's always worried that she's a bad mother, which has never been the case--and made sure to include a sincere apology, tenuously qualified to a 'how' instead of a 'what'. There's a good chance she'll latch onto that distinction and insist that's not enough, but it's honest, at least.

It's been two weeks. Waiting longer didn't seem like a good idea. We'll see what comes of it.