with their crooked stares

[maychorian]

For the interested, jujuberry136 has good thoughts about those Season 6 Criminal Minds casting spoilers. Well, more like good rants. But I found them very articulate and thought-provoking and I agree with everything she said.

In her extremely excellent link round-up on the recent unfunny business, amazonziti said something in this thread (which is also an excellent

Comments

[archaeologist_d]

You know, I don't know what started it or what is going on but I do have to say something.

Racists come in all colors. Just because she's a person of color - as if a white person has no color which is ridiculous because we all colored - doesn't mean that she's not racist just as a white person may be racist as well. Or both of them might not be racist. I'm getting really unhappy that just because a person is white, they are automatically assumed to be racist. And that is racist in of itself.

If the person is in fact racist, go to it; lambast them for it. But don't assume a specific racial type = racist because racism isn't genetic, it's learned.

And that's the end of my speech.

[maychorian]

Hmm. I see what you are saying, but that's not what was said here. Nowhere did amazonziti say that white automatically equals racist. She is speaking of a particular group of white people who are racist, even "unintentionally," as if intention matters when we are talking about something like this. And she is saying that it is not her job to educate them or make them feel better. Which it isn't. That's all she was saying.

[archaeologist_d]

I've read enough race!fail discussions to have seen this type of behavior. I've been accused of being racist because I had the gall to suggest that others (including myself) had also been discriminated against in hurtful, economic and degrading ways but how dare I compare the two. It may be that amazonziti is correct in this instance (I don't know since I haven't read the story) but I've seen people accusing people of being racist just because they aren't PoC. A sad, sad commentary.

[maychorian]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I have the disadvantages of being fat, a woman, working class... Discrimination happens. Just because racism is the current topic of discussion does not mean other types of discrimination don't exist. Too often what should be a rallying point becomes an opportunity for division instead, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

[adrenalineshots]

Not wanting to start yet another argument about this, because lord knows there's been enough of those going around, and mainly because I do agree with you, racism must be fought in all its ugly forms and shapes, but... have you read the story that started all this?

Because I have, and color me naive, but in there I read nothing but high praise for courage and strength of character of a whole nation struggling to move on forward after a tragedy.
The dog piling as you call it, comes, I think, from the fact that a few people were offended in their own sensitivities (as it is their right) and spoke about that, and somehow, the whole thing turned into a witch hunt.
As a fellow writer, I think that is that later behavior that we need to watch out for.

[maychorian]

Maybe I'm in the wrong corner of fandom, but I have not seen a witch hunt. I have seen people talking about the story and the larger issues raised by it. I have seen people who are angry and hurt at the racist tropes that permeated it. I have seen people flabbergasted by the insensitivity and thoughtlessness inherit in the very premise. I have seen people ask for an apology, I have seen people hoping that the writer and the artist will understand exactly WHY her actions were hurtful and offensive, I have seen people disappointed by the writer's apology because it was still focused on herself and not the people she hurt, and I have seen true pleasure and delight at the artist's sincere apology and meaningful actions

[adrenalineshots]

So... you haven't read the story, just other peoples' opinions and interpretations of what's writen?
Like Calamitycrow says below, discussion about racism is way too important to be treated in the manner it has been in this matter. It's being trivialized and used for other purposes.

And I agree, we do not have the same definition of witch hunt :)
No hard feelings?

[maychorian]

I read the summary, the author's notes, and the excerpts. There was enough there to see what was wrong with the premise, the mindset, and the characterization.

I understand that you weren't offended. But just because you weren't offended personally does not mean that the story wasn't offensive to others.

I really don't see how racism is being trivialized in this discussion or used for any other purpose than to discuss racism.

No hard feelings.

[maychorian]

I agree. ♥ I've been thinking about doing a fic that might have minority characters in it. When this blew up, I started thinking maybe I shouldn't do, but go with a different idea instead. And then I realized that was cowardly. I'm going to do research and talk to people about it and try to be responsible and thoughtful and empathetic, but I'm not going to give it up just yet.

[maychorian]

This is the tone argument. It's exactly what we're talking about here.

Yes, people have a right to be angry. If you can't listen to them because they're angry, that's fine. Other people are being very reasonable. It's a big internet. Again, maybe I'm just in the wrong part of the internet, but I've seen more of the latter than the former. And I've appreciated the former, too, because I want to understand and feel for those who are angry. You don't have to read about it at all if you don't want to.

SPN is always being dismissed as crazy, but I think we're crazy-awesome. I'm glad people are talking about this, because I want to listen.

[maychorian]

To be honest, sometimes it seems like this dynamic is ALL that people are talking about right now. I've seen several posts on my flist about how we need to be careful not to crucify the writer who made the original offense. I've read many comments along those lines. Lots of people are talking about it. For some people, it's all they want to talk about.

And I continue to say that that is not the point.

I agree that rational discussion is better, for lack of a better word, than anger and hostility. It might be more productive in the longer-term, easier to read and listen to. But anger has its place and I'm saying that we need to STOP telling people who are hurt and angry to shut up, to watch what they're saying, to think about what would be better in the long term, and to ask them if they want to be part of the solution instead of the problem

[half_vulcan]

I am an African American with a white mother. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood. I have attend all white private schools and lived in white neighborhoods all my life. Perhaps this has desensitized me to the issue of racism

[vikki]

If you have not experienced it don't write it.

This is what people are taking away from the conversation. No; if you have not experienced it, don't write it uninformed. If you wanted to write a 911 call but you've never had occasion to call 911, won't you try to get information about how the call goes

[half_vulcan]

I agree with your comment. That was one of the most intelligent comments I have read in days. We have been let into the lives of all the characters we write and I have never thought about that. That is what makes many of the stories so good. Great characterization

[vikki]

Fandom does have a habit of patting itself on the back: look at us, catching that racefail! Aren't we awesome? I'm sure there's been plenty of that going on, but that doesn't change the fact that the fic needed to be called out. Most of what I've seen spin out of this has been discussions not about this specific instance - although it has been used as a vehicle - but rather discussions of how racism should be handled and how people of privilege in particular should conduct themselves.

If we are hateful and bigoted towards White people or people from more privileged backgrounds does that not make us racist? What does our intolerance say about us?
I understand what you're getting at: hatred directed at anyone, whether leveled in race-related epithets or not, is a bad thing. However, I think you're misunderstanding the term racist as it's being discussed here - not hatred, but bigotry that can only go one way. It's not an epithet, it's an observation: "that's racist. that springs out of a privileged viewpoint. that's offensive