Comments | maychorian: with their crooked stares

maychorian

with their crooked stares

Jun 18, 2010 08:45

For the interested, jujuberry136 has good thoughts about those Season 6 Criminal Minds casting spoilers. Well, more like good rants. But I found them very articulate and thought-provoking and I agree with everything she said.

In her extremely excellent link round-up on the recent unfunny business, amazonziti said something in this thread (which is also an excellent ( Read more... )

racism, criminal minds, incoherent rambling

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half_vulcan June 18 2010, 19:42:18 UTC

I am an African American with a white mother. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood. I have attend all white private schools and lived in white neighborhoods all my life. Perhaps this has desensitized me to the issue of racism ( ... )

vikki June 18 2010, 22:37:36 UTC

If you have not experienced it don't write it.

This is what people are taking away from the conversation. No; if you have not experienced it, don't write it uninformed. If you wanted to write a 911 call but you've never had occasion to call 911, won't you try to get information about how the call goes ( ... )

half_vulcan June 18 2010, 23:30:07 UTC

I agree with your comment. That was one of the most intelligent comments I have read in days. We have been let into the lives of all the characters we write and I have never thought about that. That is what makes many of the stories so good. Great characterization ( ... )

vikki June 19 2010, 02:11:41 UTC

Fandom does have a habit of patting itself on the back: look at us, catching that racefail! Aren't we awesome? I'm sure there's been plenty of that going on, but that doesn't change the fact that the fic needed to be called out. Most of what I've seen spin out of this has been discussions not about this specific instance - although it has been used as a vehicle - but rather discussions of how racism should be handled and how people of privilege in particular should conduct themselves.

If we are hateful and bigoted towards White people or people from more privileged backgrounds does that not make us racist? What does our intolerance say about us?
I understand what you're getting at: hatred directed at anyone, whether leveled in race-related epithets or not, is a bad thing. However, I think you're misunderstanding the term racist as it's being discussed here - not hatred, but bigotry that can only go one way. It's not an epithet, it's an observation: "that's racist. that springs out of a privileged viewpoint. that's offensive ( ... )

half_vulcan June 19 2010, 02:41:12 UTC

Well, whether you are White or a PoC, you have certainly done your homework. I will have to take my time and go through each of your links so that I can make a more informed response ( ... )

vikki June 19 2010, 02:45:58 UTC

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. :)

I'm actually off to watch Toy Story 3, so please consider this a placeholder. I'll try to get back to you when I return from the movie.

half_vulcan June 19 2010, 04:05:13 UTC

After having read all your links, especially "white privilege" and "a failure to empathize" I have come to the conclusion that although I am Black and Muslim and have experienced isolated incidents of racism and religious intolerance from both sides of the aisle. I was raised "white". Economic advantage has isolated me from much of the racism others deal with daily and I have been surrounded by White people all my life. I have come from a position of privilege that has desensitized me to racism or perhaps I am so jaded and accustomed to racism in America that I don't notice it when it knocks on the door ( ... )

maychorian June 19 2010, 04:47:37 UTC

Hey, half_vulcan, I'm sorry I didn't reply to your comments earlier. I've been hanging out with my little sisters this evening.

I'm glad to see that you have been having a productive conversation with vikki. She has said many things that I would have liked to say very clearly and articulately, and I'm very grateful that the two of you were able to connect here.

I know what you mean about seeing both sides of the issue. I have been reading and learning about racism and sexism and many other things for several years now, and it still surprises and humbles me how very, very much I still need to learn. If I had seen that story without someone pointing out how wrong it was, I might not have noticed, and that shames me. But I want to learn to be better at spotting these things for myself. The story might not have offended me personally, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. It just means that I am in a position where I don't have to notice when such things are offensive, and it looks like maybe you are too, in some ways though not ( ... )

half_vulcan June 19 2010, 05:01:56 UTC

I figured you were letting the conversation flow after you had begun it. I am glad to hear from you ( ... )

maskedfangirl June 19 2010, 05:25:29 UTC

I just want to say I've been watching this conversation unfold, and it's been easily one of the most thoughtful and productive conversations I've read in the last few days. Really awesome to see, and I've been learning a lot from it as well, even though I have nothing to add to it.

half_vulcan June 19 2010, 05:31:40 UTC

Thank you for commenting. I must say that I am learning a lot and it has been a VERY productive and informative conversation. maychorian is great. And it is good of her to host this discussion on her journal.

It is a tough subject area and very sensitive to a lot of people and I am glad this was a safe place to have this discussion. Vikki made me feel very welcome with her well thought out responses and her links and I have a lot to consider being Black and confused.

vikki June 19 2010, 06:13:18 UTC

I have come from a position of privilege that has desensitized me to racism or perhaps I am so jaded and accustomed to racism in America that I don't notice it when it knocks on the door.

I think it's possible to fail to identify racism as racism whether you are of privilege or not, because the nature of racial privilege is so damn subversive - although it's certainly much easier for someone of privilege to fail to identify racism. lassiterfics is Indonesian but comes from a position of privilege in her home country: She talks about how privilege is not limited to white people here. In America having privilege means being white 99% of the time. =/

That careful, deliberate slant that White is right.
This is one of the parts I had the hardest time wrapping my mind around, because I wanted so hard to believe in being 'colorblind'. But encouraging everyone to be more 'white' and to be successful in the same way that privileged people are successful is a form of racism - one that is very well-intentioned indeed, but insulting nonetheless. :(

I ( ... )

half_vulcan June 20 2010, 01:30:50 UTC

Sorry I did not reply sooner. It was mall and restaurant day for my daughter and I. Our once a month bonding experience *smile ( ... )

vikki June 19 2010, 02:12:58 UTC

People have a choice in how they react when confronted by something unpleasant. They have a choice to be offended or not to be but their reaction is not caused by the source it is their OWN reaction to a situation. It stems from their personal worldview.
What amazonziti is saying in the above post is that she has a right to be angry and pissed off and not explain herself. Everyone has that right. Now I agree that someone won't learn if the subject matter isn't explained to them, but who says that the wronged person/group has to do the explaining, especially on a subject like racism? It's easy to educate yourself without ever leaving your computer screen ( ... )

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