I pretty much disagreed with almost everything Mark said about Kara and Lee in the finale (and at other times). I respect his opinion and it's been fun to tag along, but that ending, the near table!frak and the poof are NOTHING I will every be okay with.
Is he implying that Kara was given any sort of free will? Um, well, fine, I think we read this show differently.
Yeah :( One of the most distressing things for me about Kara Thrace and Her Special Destiny was the fact I felt she was completely lacking in free will, especially post-maelstrom :(
I felt she was completely lacking in free will, especially post-maelstrom
Just a question (since I'm pretty sure I see that part completely different than most). Is it REALLY Kara post-Maelstrom? Or is it something else? I would love to hear your opinion.
Maelstrom, for me, is my line in the sand, BTW. (Obvious reasons.)
My take is (I think) that post-Maelstrom Kara both was and wasn't Kara. She clearly died and became something else - unless I ignore Maelstrom onwards there is no possible way I can handwave what happened in canon to be anything other than the fact she died and came back as something not human, but...
What came back was Kara - it was everything that made Kara herself. It was her thoughts, feelings, memories, reactions, instincts. It was her essence. But she also wasn't really herself, which really makes whatever was done to her by whatever deity pretty damn cruel, because it was Kara's essence but messed up so even though she was her she couldn't be - wasn't - herself.
I hope that makes some sort of sense. It's a fairly jumbled explanation.
Written two days after the finale aired (when fandom and Shipper Nation were spiraling into a meltdown the likes of which you cannot imagine. Only the peeps who lived through it know what I'm talking about, and we don't really speak of it--- just raise a glass in silent recognition and shared suffering.)
Re: THE ART OF EPISODE DIVORCE.workerbee73December 1 2011, 19:51:40 UTC
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**shrugs**
Probably bad form to link, and it's old as the hills, but it really helped me articulate my issues with the finale (and then walk away from it like the toxic hot mess that it is.)
Heh. I'm so totally the crusty ole fangirl being like "well back in MY day..." **shakes head**
But there were some excellent catch phrases. No doubt.
It seems you have given into the rant that I was trying to resist. *pets you*
because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?!
I know. It's sad. EVERYONE got endings! EVERYONE! Even if they hurt, they got actual endings. But not pilots.
But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.Try not to think about it too much. That way lies only rage and sadness
( ... )
[I'm warning for generalized rants and slight off-topic ramblings. This show gives me FEELINGS. And not all of them are completely tied in to Kara and Lee. Also, I ranted so much I need to split this into two comments *headdesk* SORRYYYYY.]
*is petted* I never pass up an opportunity to rant about this finale. Sometimes television finales are great. Sometimes they suck. Sometimes they don't exist. If they do exist they all have their flaws (I'm thinking of the obvious in-universe liberties taken in BtVS, but those work because they're part of a deliberate metaphor and further serve to strengthen the overarching theme of the show itself). But this? There is not one single bit of this that's logical. The only bits I like are sending Galactica off in a blaze of glory (although the battle itself is extremely "WTF"--I'm not even going to go there right now since that's fairly off topic for this comm) and the fact that Gaius Baltar gets to give his giant eloquent speech in CIC. I love Gaius most when he's a skeezbag and a sleezball and I
( ... )
And yes. Your ending is way better. I don't understand what purpose it serves to have them not be together except that the writers and producers apparently took absurd levels of glee in never allowing them to be together. It doesn't actually make sense to deny them their ending in this case. It's just like they got to that point while writing and were like "wait, this is looking too happy. MAKE HER DISAPPEAR." I do love how Lee makes a move in the actual ending like he's going to hold her close and never let her go and she does this little hitch backstep like "if you touch me I won't leave and I know I have to so please don't." Then again, the finale sends so many mixed messages about everything that I guess the message could also be "don't touch me, I don't love you." Though that contradicts everything else we've seen for four seasons a mini series and a movie. In fact, hey, everything else about Daybreak does tooI'm coming to be of the opinion that they made the ending so terrible just so we'd still be talking about it now. And so
( ... )
Comments 91
immediately felt so goddamn satisfied by that image of Lee standing amongst the green, waving grass blades in the field.
There was no shitty retconning of that plot, there was no attempt to deny her agency or free will
( ... )
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Really?? *heart breaking into millions of tiny pieces*
Feh.
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I'm like.... "Um, Mark? Were we watching the same show?"
**CRICKETS**
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I do like his praise for Katee though.
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:::::SHOCKED::::::
:::::ENRAGED::::::
:::::DEPRESSED:::::
I'll never get over it.
THE END.
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That's because you never get over true love.
*joins your 'not over it' club*
Can I be Secretary of Bitter Thoughts?
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Especially this: There was no shitty retconning of that plot, there was no attempt to deny her agency or free will
o_O I am baffled. Is he implying that Kara was given any sort of free will? Um, well, fine, I think we read this show differently.
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Yeah :( One of the most distressing things for me about Kara Thrace and Her Special Destiny was the fact I felt she was completely lacking in free will, especially post-maelstrom :(
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Just a question (since I'm pretty sure I see that part completely different than most). Is it REALLY Kara post-Maelstrom? Or is it something else? I would love to hear your opinion.
Maelstrom, for me, is my line in the sand, BTW. (Obvious reasons.)
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My take is (I think) that post-Maelstrom Kara both was and wasn't Kara. She clearly died and became something else - unless I ignore Maelstrom onwards there is no possible way I can handwave what happened in canon to be anything other than the fact she died and came back as something not human, but...
What came back was Kara - it was everything that made Kara herself. It was her thoughts, feelings, memories, reactions, instincts. It was her essence. But she also wasn't really herself, which really makes whatever was done to her by whatever deity pretty damn cruel, because it was Kara's essence but messed up so even though she was her she couldn't be - wasn't - herself.
I hope that makes some sort of sense. It's a fairly jumbled explanation.
What's your take? :)
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http://workerbee73.livejournal.com/17138.html
Written two days after the finale aired (when fandom and Shipper Nation were spiraling into a meltdown the likes of which you cannot imagine. Only the peeps who lived through it know what I'm talking about, and we don't really speak of it--- just raise a glass in silent recognition and shared suffering.)
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ROFL over 'magic fucking space music' and 'miscarriages of not enough love'
*snort*
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**shrugs**
Probably bad form to link, and it's old as the hills, but it really helped me articulate my issues with the finale (and then walk away from it like the toxic hot mess that it is.)
Heh. I'm so totally the crusty ole fangirl being like "well back in MY day..." **shakes head**
But there were some excellent catch phrases. No doubt.
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Lol, no worries. I'd say you've earned it. And I for one, find it highly entertaining.
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because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?!
I know. It's sad. EVERYONE got endings! EVERYONE! Even if they hurt, they got actual endings. But not pilots.
But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.Try not to think about it too much. That way lies only rage and sadness ( ... )
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*is petted* I never pass up an opportunity to rant about this finale. Sometimes television finales are great. Sometimes they suck. Sometimes they don't exist. If they do exist they all have their flaws (I'm thinking of the obvious in-universe liberties taken in BtVS, but those work because they're part of a deliberate metaphor and further serve to strengthen the overarching theme of the show itself). But this? There is not one single bit of this that's logical. The only bits I like are sending Galactica off in a blaze of glory (although the battle itself is extremely "WTF"--I'm not even going to go there right now since that's fairly off topic for this comm) and the fact that Gaius Baltar gets to give his giant eloquent speech in CIC. I love Gaius most when he's a skeezbag and a sleezball and I ( ... )
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