Oooo Daybreak--the occurrence that launched a thousand essays and internet fights. ESSAY TIIIIME!!!!
So the first time I watched Daybreak, I was ok with it. I was ok with everything. I think I was mostly just stunned that the show was over and it literally had been giving me anxiety attacks, so it was nice that those had stopped. They were, of course, replaced by random bouts of tears but hey, that's ok.
First off, I think that Kara and Lee were done an extreme disservice in all of Season 4. They are rarely even on screen together which is when their characters are most interesting and most dynamic. The fact that my favorite part of the show is those two should come as no surprise to anyone, so the first time I watched it I lived for their little moments and those were what shined through for me. The second time? I was like "but... where is all my goodness? I REMEMBER MORE GOODNESS." I'm firmly of the belief that viewers were so sick of the Quad of Doom that the writers decided to just essentially drop the entire K/L plot altogether which makes NO logical plot-sense as those two are so wrapped up in one another from second-one that they really don't function properly without each other anymore ("The Son Also Rises" clearly showed us this). Why do I make the point of saying they're my favorite part? Because I think who your favorite characters matters a lot in how you read this entire show. And I don't read it Mark's way at all.
Ok, now for Daybreak itself. The fact that Kara comes back at all is not a shitty retcon. You can't retcon something three episodes later. A retcon usually occurs in a different season entirely because the writers need something to have been different (the Final Five and Daniel are a perfect example of an actual retcon. Oh wait, SO IS ALL OF DAYBREAK.) Clearly, when they killed her they intended for her to be coming back immediately. And Kara disappearing exemplifies free will? Because it's free will to be manipulated into killing yourself, returning, going crazy from being yanked around by mystical forces for a year, and then what? You just disappear whether you want to or not? Daybreak does an extreme disservice to the most vibrant interesting character on the show because--really, when did she ever show any signs of being something other than Kara Thrace? She's still a poor leader, still a drunk, still impulsive. There are no explanations, there is a flashback suggesting that--because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?! Baltar gets a happy ending for fu--um... Frak's sake. Aherm.) I just don't buy the whole "angel" thing. The writers were lazy and couldn't think up a real explanation. That's my only conclusion.
In fact, on a second watch, I didn't buy any of the finale at all. My skepticism was fueled by too much meta and shipper-rage, but it's entirely nonsensical. What it comes down to is this: they made the answer to every single thing "oh, god did it." That is the laziest thing I've ever heard in my life. You can't think up a better explanation for things than god did it??? DUDE I CAN THINK UP SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT IN FIVE MINUTES. My theories were better than that.
Anyway, back to Kara and Lee. I'm cool with them not ever being together. That's just them. I'm ok with them getting no happy ending. Who ever expected them to get one? They told us way back in Season 2 "bright shiny futures are overrated anyway." But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.
So much more. I HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO SAY ABOUT THIS. But it won't come out of my brain fast enough and I need to go to class. *pouts*
It seems you have given into the rant that I was trying to resist. *pets you*
because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?!
I know. It's sad. EVERYONE got endings! EVERYONE! Even if they hurt, they got actual endings. But not pilots.
But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.
Try not to think about it too much. That way lies only rage and sadness.
Here try this . . .
Pilots in a field on Earth.
Lee: My first memory of my father is watching him fly away on a big plane and wondering when he'd be coming back. He's not coming back this time.
Kara: Maybe he will. He can't grieve forever, Lee.
(skipping Kara's crap about being done with journeys)
Kara: So what about you? What are you gonna do? (skip stupid line about 'today is the first day of the rest of your life' cuz BARF!)
Lee: I always thought after this I'd kick back, relax, spend the rest of my days doing the absolute minimum possible.
Kara: And now that you're here?
Lee: I wanna explore! I wanna the climb mountains, I wanna the cross oceans. Gods, I can't believe I'm saying this. It sounds so exhausting. I must be crazy.
Kara: *laughs* Well, we can't have you running off playing explorer all alone. Guess I'd better come along. You could use someone who knows what they're doing out there..
[I'm warning for generalized rants and slight off-topic ramblings. This show gives me FEELINGS. And not all of them are completely tied in to Kara and Lee. Also, I ranted so much I need to split this into two comments *headdesk* SORRYYYYY.]
*is petted* I never pass up an opportunity to rant about this finale. Sometimes television finales are great. Sometimes they suck. Sometimes they don't exist. If they do exist they all have their flaws (I'm thinking of the obvious in-universe liberties taken in BtVS, but those work because they're part of a deliberate metaphor and further serve to strengthen the overarching theme of the show itself). But this? There is not one single bit of this that's logical. The only bits I like are sending Galactica off in a blaze of glory (although the battle itself is extremely "WTF"--I'm not even going to go there right now since that's fairly off topic for this comm) and the fact that Gaius Baltar gets to give his giant eloquent speech in CIC. I love Gaius most when he's a skeezbag and a sleezball and I missed his eloquent ass-saving speeches. Gaius' "religion" is so so humanistic and empowering at some points and then it's like a different writer gets a hold of it and it turns back into "THIS IS AN OBVIOUS STAND-IN FOR CHRISTIANITY." I just want to mash the keyboard in rage at this ending.
What amuses me the most is how ok with it I was to begin with. What also amuses me is how I would forgive the finale everything--every innanity and nonsensical non sequitur--if it gave me even a smidgen of closure with Kara, and Kara and Lee. YOUR ENTIRE FOUR SEASONS OF TUMULTUOUS RELATIONSHIP LEADS UP TO THAT? I also tend to hate this episode because of how many ship wars it gets me into. "Oh, she loved Sam more. See." WTF. a.) she always gets hung up on dead guys, and only after they're inaccessible does she become committed to them. Why? Because they can't in any way hurt her that way. Girl has serious commitment issues. b.) the first time she tells Sam that she loves him is like twenty minutes before the end of the entire series. c.) THIS IS ONE EPISODE. Your five minutes of genuine affection in one episode does not negate my hours upon hours of complicated, subtle, screwed-up rightness. d.) [then my impulse to choke people through the internet kicks in and I lose all other rational thought]. I don't understand how anybody can say she loves Sam more than Lee after UB (although this is, yet again, a completely off topic discussion that I should steer away from BUT I CAN'T). I continually suspect that this has to do with Sam being their favorite character. Kara is way way too complex to boil down to nothing but her romantic relationships which is something I think most K/L shippers are good at not doing (then again it's our ship that has the most complexity inherent in it, so we see more of Kara--even through a romantic lens--than most).
And yes. Your ending is way better. I don't understand what purpose it serves to have them not be together except that the writers and producers apparently took absurd levels of glee in never allowing them to be together. It doesn't actually make sense to deny them their ending in this case. It's just like they got to that point while writing and were like "wait, this is looking too happy. MAKE HER DISAPPEAR." I do love how Lee makes a move in the actual ending like he's going to hold her close and never let her go and she does this little hitch backstep like "if you touch me I won't leave and I know I have to so please don't." Then again, the finale sends so many mixed messages about everything that I guess the message could also be "don't touch me, I don't love you." Though that contradicts everything else we've seen for four seasons a mini series and a movie. In fact, hey, everything else about Daybreak does too.
I'm coming to be of the opinion that they made the ending so terrible just so we'd still be talking about it now. And so we'd still be writing fic about it now. It was like the finale was for the network and the casual fans to say "ok, here's a moderate amount of closure. This is the best we could come up with. If you don't like it, go write your own." Which we all vehemently do. Every time I finish this show the only thing I want to do is start it over and relive the amazing (because, honestly, I'm on my third rewatch and every time I finish I start again within three days.) And I drag all of my friends into watching it as well. I feel a little bad about that though, because I feel like the show misrepresents itself in the context of the finale. I'm like "WATCH THIS WITH ME IT'S AMAZING." And then they watch it, and agree, and we love it for as long as it takes us to finish. And then at the end I just feel bereft. I always feel like I've betrayed my friends' trust by making them watch something so good and then the ending being that. It makes me feel like a bad person. I do not like that my favorite show makes me honestly feel like a bad person. Because Season One: Politics and Hyper-Realism... in Space! ("yay!") Season Two: More Politics and Hyper-Realism... in Space! ("yay!") Season Three: Soap Opera... in Space! ("ilu guys so much that I don't care--GIVE ME MOAR.") Season Four: Crazy Religious Mysticism... IN SPACE!!! (".............wtf???") (And can I just say how bitter I was to find out that Earth 1.0 wasn't our Earth? I loved the thought that we had had a technological singularity that lead to nuclear destruction of the humanity. What a dark and dire warning to send! It was brilliant and fit in with the tone of the show perfectly. But then, we get our crappy sappy lame-ass second (or third or fourth or fifth??) chance to make it all work out? I mean, I'd say up through 4.0 is serious quality. Up through Gaeta's mutiny is serious serious quality. After that it gets iffy.)
I do love how Lee makes a move in the actual ending like he's going to hold her close and never let her go and she does this little hitch backstep like "if you touch me I won't leave and I know I have to so please don't"
Oh God! That is my favorite moment of that scene. His face! Her face! SO MANY FEELINGS! Mabye the writers should have just left out all dialogue and let Jamie and Katee just sell the shit outta it. Haha.
I always feel like I've betrayed my friends' trust by making them watch something so good and then the ending being that. It makes me feel like a bad person. I do not like that my favorite show makes me honestly feel like a bad person.
THAT to me is HILARIOUS! Because basically anytime you try to convert anyone to the BSG koolaid, you're pretty much saying, "Hey, come spend 4 season getting your heart torn apart and your soul shredded! It's awesome!" Lol, and it IS awesome, but also, wrenching. I must admit, no one I've converted has turned into a Kara/Lee shipper yet *cries forever* so I don't feel SO bad about shepherding them into the doomed fold.
Basically, if you still feel ragey, feel ragey. It's OK. It speaks to the level of your love for them.
The person I'm currently converting is apparently an Adama/Roslin shipper--and we're on episode five (I don't even know). I also had to explain to her what shipping even was. But she has made comments to the effect of "oh, they are so hot for each other" and "tell me they get it on in the next episode" in regards to Kara and Lee. I'm working on her (it possibly helps that I cannot contain my levels of squee.) Why I want her to feel this pain, I'm not entirely sure. BUT SHE MUST. (Also I won't feel quite as stupid crying so much if she's as invested in it too. Lol.)
So the first time I watched Daybreak, I was ok with it. I was ok with everything. I think I was mostly just stunned that the show was over and it literally had been giving me anxiety attacks, so it was nice that those had stopped. They were, of course, replaced by random bouts of tears but hey, that's ok.
I totally get what you mean. The first (and only) time I watched Daybreak, I was pretty much in shock that BSG was actually over, and because I didn't really think about what the show gave Lee and Kara for an ending, I was pretty OK with it. But as that shock wore off, I began to think about it more... and realized what a crap, retcon-y ending we (and K & L) were handed and expected to buy. Hence the beginning of the rage, rants, and general anger.
If they're going to end it with having the Fleet end up at our Earth (which I'm not going to go into how subtly that bothers me--on the face of it, whatevs, I'm fine with it) then fine, ok. I'm actually pretty cool with that, and I'm cool with all of us being part-Cylon, and I'm even cool with who dies and who doesn't--issues about gender aside (notice how the only females still alive are in traditional gender roles? Mothers, wives, etc. They've killed off my president, my warrior, my mechanic, my communications specialist, my prognosticating crazy Cylon, my conflicted double agent Cylon, and my competent aide de camp/genius Cylon. I'm left with three wives, one of whom is a mother. What guys get to stay alive? All of them. Every single one. Oh, except Sam. So, on that score, I'm out an athlete.) But I am not cool at all with deciding everything was a one-true-God (this is just so against what the rest of the show had been) and I'm really really not cool with everyone Lee Adama loves leaving him in the course of five minutes. And with them having no idea how to explain Starbuck. And with them ripping apart the foundation of K/L's relationship with those flashbacks. The writer's themselves built the foundation of their relationship on "we were friends and possibly more when we couldn't be together. And now we can and so much is still in the way." And that whole previous relationship was apparently one night, an instantaneous attraction, and a few mistakes? What is this, a soap opera? DO NOT WANT.
Fic. I need some fic. Someone throw fic on me and cool me off. Lol. (No, you don't have to, I have plenty of tabs open at the mo' to put out this fire.)
So the first time I watched Daybreak, I was ok with it. I was ok with everything. I think I was mostly just stunned that the show was over and it literally had been giving me anxiety attacks, so it was nice that those had stopped. They were, of course, replaced by random bouts of tears but hey, that's ok.
First off, I think that Kara and Lee were done an extreme disservice in all of Season 4. They are rarely even on screen together which is when their characters are most interesting and most dynamic. The fact that my favorite part of the show is those two should come as no surprise to anyone, so the first time I watched it I lived for their little moments and those were what shined through for me. The second time? I was like "but... where is all my goodness? I REMEMBER MORE GOODNESS." I'm firmly of the belief that viewers were so sick of the Quad of Doom that the writers decided to just essentially drop the entire K/L plot altogether which makes NO logical plot-sense as those two are so wrapped up in one another from second-one that they really don't function properly without each other anymore ("The Son Also Rises" clearly showed us this). Why do I make the point of saying they're my favorite part? Because I think who your favorite characters matters a lot in how you read this entire show. And I don't read it Mark's way at all.
Ok, now for Daybreak itself. The fact that Kara comes back at all is not a shitty retcon. You can't retcon something three episodes later. A retcon usually occurs in a different season entirely because the writers need something to have been different (the Final Five and Daniel are a perfect example of an actual retcon. Oh wait, SO IS ALL OF DAYBREAK.) Clearly, when they killed her they intended for her to be coming back immediately. And Kara disappearing exemplifies free will? Because it's free will to be manipulated into killing yourself, returning, going crazy from being yanked around by mystical forces for a year, and then what? You just disappear whether you want to or not? Daybreak does an extreme disservice to the most vibrant interesting character on the show because--really, when did she ever show any signs of being something other than Kara Thrace? She's still a poor leader, still a drunk, still impulsive. There are no explanations, there is a flashback suggesting that--because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?! Baltar gets a happy ending for fu--um... Frak's sake. Aherm.) I just don't buy the whole "angel" thing. The writers were lazy and couldn't think up a real explanation. That's my only conclusion.
In fact, on a second watch, I didn't buy any of the finale at all. My skepticism was fueled by too much meta and shipper-rage, but it's entirely nonsensical. What it comes down to is this: they made the answer to every single thing "oh, god did it." That is the laziest thing I've ever heard in my life. You can't think up a better explanation for things than god did it??? DUDE I CAN THINK UP SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT IN FIVE MINUTES. My theories were better than that.
Anyway, back to Kara and Lee. I'm cool with them not ever being together. That's just them. I'm ok with them getting no happy ending. Who ever expected them to get one? They told us way back in Season 2 "bright shiny futures are overrated anyway." But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.
So much more. I HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO SAY ABOUT THIS. But it won't come out of my brain fast enough and I need to go to class. *pouts*
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because Lee and Kara made a poor decision under the influence--they do not deserve to be together (because, yeah, that one poor decision is so much worse than EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE?!
I know. It's sad. EVERYONE got endings! EVERYONE! Even if they hurt, they got actual endings. But not pilots.
But no affection? No anything except in flashbacks? Nothing. No begging her not to leave or a hug or anything? And then POOF. She just disappears? HOW DOES THAT INSTILL SATISFACTION IN ANYONE? I ASK YOU! All it instills in me is deep depression, frustration that my favorite character is a gaping plot hole, and the unshakable notion that Lee goes and climbs his mountain--only to jump off of it when he gets to the top.
Try not to think about it too much. That way lies only rage and sadness.
Here try this . . .
Pilots in a field on Earth.
Lee: My first memory of my father is watching him fly away on a big plane and wondering when he'd be coming back. He's not coming back this time.
Kara: Maybe he will. He can't grieve forever, Lee.
(skipping Kara's crap about being done with journeys)
Kara: So what about you? What are you gonna do? (skip stupid line about 'today is the first day of the rest of your life' cuz BARF!)
Lee: I always thought after this I'd kick back, relax, spend the rest of my days doing the absolute minimum possible.
Kara: And now that you're here?
Lee: I wanna explore! I wanna the climb mountains, I wanna the cross oceans. Gods, I can't believe I'm saying this. It sounds so exhausting. I must be crazy.
Kara: *laughs* Well, we can't have you running off playing explorer all alone. Guess I'd better come along. You could use someone who knows what they're doing out there..
Lee: *smiles knowingly* My hero.
Kara: You know it.
They both look out at small hill behind them.
Lee: Race you to the top?
She's already running. He chases after her.
Lee: Cheater!
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*is petted* I never pass up an opportunity to rant about this finale. Sometimes television finales are great. Sometimes they suck. Sometimes they don't exist. If they do exist they all have their flaws (I'm thinking of the obvious in-universe liberties taken in BtVS, but those work because they're part of a deliberate metaphor and further serve to strengthen the overarching theme of the show itself). But this? There is not one single bit of this that's logical. The only bits I like are sending Galactica off in a blaze of glory (although the battle itself is extremely "WTF"--I'm not even going to go there right now since that's fairly off topic for this comm) and the fact that Gaius Baltar gets to give his giant eloquent speech in CIC. I love Gaius most when he's a skeezbag and a sleezball and I missed his eloquent ass-saving speeches. Gaius' "religion" is so so humanistic and empowering at some points and then it's like a different writer gets a hold of it and it turns back into "THIS IS AN OBVIOUS STAND-IN FOR CHRISTIANITY." I just want to mash the keyboard in rage at this ending.
What amuses me the most is how ok with it I was to begin with. What also amuses me is how I would forgive the finale everything--every innanity and nonsensical non sequitur--if it gave me even a smidgen of closure with Kara, and Kara and Lee. YOUR ENTIRE FOUR SEASONS OF TUMULTUOUS RELATIONSHIP LEADS UP TO THAT? I also tend to hate this episode because of how many ship wars it gets me into. "Oh, she loved Sam more. See." WTF. a.) she always gets hung up on dead guys, and only after they're inaccessible does she become committed to them. Why? Because they can't in any way hurt her that way. Girl has serious commitment issues. b.) the first time she tells Sam that she loves him is like twenty minutes before the end of the entire series. c.) THIS IS ONE EPISODE. Your five minutes of genuine affection in one episode does not negate my hours upon hours of complicated, subtle, screwed-up rightness. d.) [then my impulse to choke people through the internet kicks in and I lose all other rational thought]. I don't understand how anybody can say she loves Sam more than Lee after UB (although this is, yet again, a completely off topic discussion that I should steer away from BUT I CAN'T). I continually suspect that this has to do with Sam being their favorite character. Kara is way way too complex to boil down to nothing but her romantic relationships which is something I think most K/L shippers are good at not doing (then again it's our ship that has the most complexity inherent in it, so we see more of Kara--even through a romantic lens--than most).
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I'm coming to be of the opinion that they made the ending so terrible just so we'd still be talking about it now. And so we'd still be writing fic about it now. It was like the finale was for the network and the casual fans to say "ok, here's a moderate amount of closure. This is the best we could come up with. If you don't like it, go write your own." Which we all vehemently do. Every time I finish this show the only thing I want to do is start it over and relive the amazing (because, honestly, I'm on my third rewatch and every time I finish I start again within three days.) And I drag all of my friends into watching it as well. I feel a little bad about that though, because I feel like the show misrepresents itself in the context of the finale. I'm like "WATCH THIS WITH ME IT'S AMAZING." And then they watch it, and agree, and we love it for as long as it takes us to finish. And then at the end I just feel bereft. I always feel like I've betrayed my friends' trust by making them watch something so good and then the ending being that. It makes me feel like a bad person. I do not like that my favorite show makes me honestly feel like a bad person. Because Season One: Politics and Hyper-Realism... in Space! ("yay!") Season Two: More Politics and Hyper-Realism... in Space! ("yay!") Season Three: Soap Opera... in Space! ("ilu guys so much that I don't care--GIVE ME MOAR.") Season Four: Crazy Religious Mysticism... IN SPACE!!! (".............wtf???") (And can I just say how bitter I was to find out that Earth 1.0 wasn't our Earth? I loved the thought that we had had a technological singularity that lead to nuclear destruction of the humanity. What a dark and dire warning to send! It was brilliant and fit in with the tone of the show perfectly. But then, we get our crappy sappy lame-ass second (or third or fourth or fifth??) chance to make it all work out? I mean, I'd say up through 4.0 is serious quality. Up through Gaeta's mutiny is serious serious quality. After that it gets iffy.)
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Oh God! That is my favorite moment of that scene. His face! Her face! SO MANY FEELINGS! Mabye the writers should have just left out all dialogue and let Jamie and Katee just sell the shit outta it. Haha.
I always feel like I've betrayed my friends' trust by making them watch something so good and then the ending being that. It makes me feel like a bad person. I do not like that my favorite show makes me honestly feel like a bad person.
THAT to me is HILARIOUS! Because basically anytime you try to convert anyone to the BSG koolaid, you're pretty much saying, "Hey, come spend 4 season getting your heart torn apart and your soul shredded! It's awesome!" Lol, and it IS awesome, but also, wrenching. I must admit, no one I've converted has turned into a Kara/Lee shipper yet *cries forever* so I don't feel SO bad about shepherding them into the doomed fold.
Basically, if you still feel ragey, feel ragey. It's OK. It speaks to the level of your love for them.
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I totally get what you mean. The first (and only) time I watched Daybreak, I was pretty much in shock that BSG was actually over, and because I didn't really think about what the show gave Lee and Kara for an ending, I was pretty OK with it. But as that shock wore off, I began to think about it more... and realized what a crap, retcon-y ending we (and K & L) were handed and expected to buy. Hence the beginning of the rage, rants, and general anger.
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Fic. I need some fic. Someone throw fic on me and cool me off. Lol. (No, you don't have to, I have plenty of tabs open at the mo' to put out this fire.)
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