Re: Some sincere questions I had the other daycleojonesDecember 10 2009, 04:18:20 UTC
1. YES. *nods head vigorously*
2. See... This is what I'm wondering about. How Nero's actions effected Romulus' position in relation to the Federation. Will they disavoy and/or distance themselves from the destruction of Vulcan? Will the fact that a Romulan did this cause an even greater rift between Romulans and Vulcans?
....and totally off-topic but what about the Klingons? 47 of their warbirds were destroyed by an enemy that was then dispatched by the Federation. Will this speed-up their alliance with the Federation?
3. Hmmm. Spock Prime is about the greater good. I don't see that changing.
Re: Some sincere questions I had the other daythreeb_1973December 10 2009, 04:23:24 UTC
1. I definitely think it points to some kind of superiority complex. While I'm glad that the new writers (on Enterprise and for the 2009 movie) stopped portraying Vulcans as ultra-perfect infallible super-beings, this particular flaw grates. I just have a very hard time believing that a culture based on logic would be such xenophobic assholes.
2. I don't think they would be willing to mix with Romulans (or vice versa) because it was the Romulans who destroyed the Vulcan homeworld.
3. Haven't read any of these. I'll have to check them out and get back to you. :-)
I want to add, the Blood Fever episode and the ENT one where the "feeling Vulcans" visit and T'Pol basically gets mentally violated, are the reasons why I think pon farr in the wrong Vulcan can result in non-con, muder, etc.
"A telepathic mating bond is an uncontrollable desire to mate initiated by telepathic contact with a Vulcan during their Pon farr cycle.
When a Vulcan is going through Pon farr, it is possible for them to initiate a telepathic mating bond with a desired mate. This is usually done through a mind meld, and only requires brief contact between the Vulcan and the person they are trying to mate with.
The intended mate does not have to be a willing recipient of the meld, or the resulting bond.
It did go down in my estimation after that. Is it true the actress was dating one of the producers? If so that explains why she was in almost every storyline every week. Even tho the show ended with her dating Chakotay it seems fanfic writers are not keen on that pairring, 7/Chakotay romance stories are not that common. lol
Xenophobic writershateya_habibaDecember 10 2009, 05:12:43 UTC
Does it bother anyone that the franchise writers go above and beyond the call of duty to present the Vulcans as a xenophobic race? The writers worry me more than the characters. The message is clear: Unless you look like us, think like us and prefer us above all others, you're xenophobic and in our storytelling we'll make it abundantly clear that you're lesser. People like Spock (appearing as the tragic mulatto) and like T'Pol (appearing as an emotionally unstable drug addict whose emotions are too close to the surface) because they prefer us. Any species who doesn't jump on the human led Federation-bandwagon is presented in severely negative terms.
Spock's treatment at the hands of a few classmates (they didn't even qualify as a handful) and one (yes one) Vulcan Science Academy member does not a xenophobic species make. Spock was accepted into the science academy. He chose not to attend in the same way many franchise writers choose not to show many Vulcans (Sarek aside...even he is written as being reluctant) who look upon Spock
( ... )
Re: Xenophobic writersthreeb_1973December 10 2009, 05:30:51 UTC
I have never liked the way the writers portrayed the Vulcans as xenophobic, especially in later series. I agree with the assessment of reboot!kirk, he seemed silly and immature to me, and I just can't see him having the same kind of friendship with Spock that was portrayed in TOS. McCoy not questioning Spock's state of mind also annoyed me. Spock gets pissed and puts Kirk off the ship? That was a pretty clear tip off that the man was grieving and not thinking straight.
However, I didn't get that Spock was torched by Spock Prime, and I definitely got the sense that the Vulcans saw Spock's human heritage as a disadvantage. I don't remember the clapping woman, or the Vulcans grieving with Spock. I'll have to watch again and make sure to look for those things.
Re: Xenophobic writershateya_habibaDecember 10 2009, 07:49:55 UTC
I definitely got the sense that the Vulcans saw Spock's human heritage as a disadvantage.
Perhaps you've touched upon a key word here: heritage. Even if Spock were the product of an "interracial" marriage among humans, there would be certain disadvantages. This isn't related to intelligence, but how one conducts oneself in society (especially the father's). Spock's barely restrained (when it comes to his mother and is understandable) violent tendencies are indeed troublesome for a society that has taken a radical means to escape those very same tendencies. The ones that threatened to bring their species to extinction 5,000 years earlier.
I'm not excusing them from hurting Spock because Spock is the Vulcan I care about the most, however, I do take exception when I am consistently told (via the narrative) that his Vulcan DNA makes him equally despised among humans although only Vulcans are expected to take the brunt of our wrath.
I don't remember the clapping woman, or the Vulcans grieving with Spock. I'll have to watch again and
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Re: Xenophobic writerscleojonesDecember 10 2009, 05:54:51 UTC
Flaws make characters and races more interesting IMO. The fact that they do show these issues, this xenophobia, is a good thing, to me.
It doesn't have to be an either or thing. Complexity, true complexity means these qualities, good and bad can co-exist within the *same* characters. One can show sympathy for Spock's loss *and* be xenophobic.
It's why McCoy is such a likable, appealing character despite all the racist jabs at Spock.
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I have to add that Spock was made in a petri dish by a xenophobic culture, so Vulcan genes aren't necessarily dominant.
The scientists designed him to be compatible with the planet on which he lived.
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I didn't know this, that puts a whole new spin on things.
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2. See... This is what I'm wondering about. How Nero's actions effected Romulus' position in relation to the Federation. Will they disavoy and/or distance themselves from the destruction of Vulcan? Will the fact that a Romulan did this cause an even greater rift between Romulans and Vulcans?
....and totally off-topic but what about the Klingons? 47 of their warbirds were destroyed by an enemy that was then dispatched by the Federation. Will this speed-up their alliance with the Federation?
3. Hmmm. Spock Prime is about the greater good. I don't see that changing.
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2. I don't think they would be willing to mix with Romulans (or vice versa) because it was the Romulans who destroyed the Vulcan homeworld.
3. Haven't read any of these. I'll have to check them out and get back to you. :-)
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"A telepathic mating bond is an uncontrollable desire to mate initiated by telepathic contact with a Vulcan during their Pon farr cycle.
When a Vulcan is going through Pon farr, it is possible for them to initiate a telepathic mating bond with a desired mate. This is usually done through a mind meld, and only requires brief contact between the Vulcan and the person they are trying to mate with.
The intended mate does not have to be a willing recipient of the meld, or the resulting bond.
Very scary.
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Spock's treatment at the hands of a few classmates (they didn't even qualify as a handful) and one (yes one) Vulcan Science Academy member does not a xenophobic species make. Spock was accepted into the science academy. He chose not to attend in the same way many franchise writers choose not to show many Vulcans (Sarek aside...even he is written as being reluctant) who look upon Spock ( ... )
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However, I didn't get that Spock was torched by Spock Prime, and I definitely got the sense that the Vulcans saw Spock's human heritage as a disadvantage. I don't remember the clapping woman, or the Vulcans grieving with Spock. I'll have to watch again and make sure to look for those things.
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Perhaps you've touched upon a key word here: heritage. Even if Spock were the product of an "interracial" marriage among humans, there would be certain disadvantages. This isn't related to intelligence, but how one conducts oneself in society (especially the father's). Spock's barely restrained (when it comes to his mother and is understandable) violent tendencies are indeed troublesome for a society that has taken a radical means to escape those very same tendencies. The ones that threatened to bring their species to extinction 5,000 years earlier.
I'm not excusing them from hurting Spock because Spock is the Vulcan I care about the most, however, I do take exception when I am consistently told (via the narrative) that his Vulcan DNA makes him equally despised among humans although only Vulcans are expected to take the brunt of our wrath.
I don't remember the clapping woman, or the Vulcans grieving with Spock. I'll have to watch again and ( ... )
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It doesn't have to be an either or thing. Complexity, true complexity means these qualities, good and bad can co-exist within the *same* characters. One can show sympathy for Spock's loss *and* be xenophobic.
It's why McCoy is such a likable, appealing character despite all the racist jabs at Spock.
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