Too many new K-pop idol groups debuting...my assessment.

[cronodroid]

Hey guys! I'm Crono. This is just a quickie regarding my favorite Meta topic: the K-pop industry. Mind dump warning…

Comments

[greywing]

It's mostly pop, there is very little room for innovation, and both Korean tastes and the Korean market are very homogeneous in my opinion. The global market is diverse; however, exploiting it through all these new groups is not the way to go about it.Such an argument may be in danger of outsider-looking-in syndrome. Where I live, there are two big Pop stations on the radio, but they may as well be one station. They play the same five or so artists that have a hit pop song out. If you only listened to these two stations, you'd be deluded into thinking that that's all the music has to offer and that, really, the Pop genre in America is boring and sampling stuff from the 80s and 90s and where is the innovation

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[greywing]

I'm not saying it's a smart way to go about things, but it's clear also that currently "in" idols have a expiary date, especially female groups. Many of us here are watching SNSD with interest to see how long they can survive as a girl group precisely because the age limit for being successful as a girl group is catching up to them--and we want to see if it's sooner rather than later.

There may also be another factor: the longer established a group, the more it might cost management to keep them. I wonder how the risk-to-create-a-successful-group vs. cost-to-keep-a-successful-group scenarios balance out.

Plus, you know how it is with any market: companies want to get while the getting is good and so everyone is on that bandwagon until, well, everyone falls off of it.

With Kara, do many people remember the days of Sunghee and Break It/If U Wanna?Yes. Enough people remember to make other people curious. I'm not even into Kara, but the insistence of older fans in mentioning Sunghee has not only made me aware of her existence, but

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[cronodroid]

This is true, and I wasn’t saying that Korean music is not also quite diverse, but like you said, it’s only the pop music that is getting out. This is the problem, I really don’t think the popular music being made is exceptionally groundbreaking at the moment, and most of the new groups that I’ve seen are doing nothing at all to advance pop music. If anything, they’re going backwards. The groups that are making either refreshing/good stuff usually (but not always) come from the Big Three. There are successes from the smaller companies as I mentioned, but it would appear the chances of creating a truly breakout group with a new start-up seems slim. Not that I have any real problem with people giving it a try, I’m just curious whether the cost of forming a new idol group actually pays off

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[cronodroid]

The fan driven popularity thing is interesting I think. It ties in with this point: right now K-pop is experiencing a surge of popularity globally. But funnily enough, all the K-pop artists trying to break into the hardest market (US) have failed miserably. One of my friends who used to work with Se7en thinks it's a combination of prejudice and Americans not being "ready" for Asian pop stars or K-pop in general. In many ways, this still applies, but personally I think as K-pop expands, there are serious limitations on K-pop becoming as big as the entertainment companies want. A lot of it has to do with American tastes, Americans prefer rap and R&B as I mentioned before

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[arbitrary_greay]

They should slow down the release of so many rookies before the K-Pop industry implodes.Well, I suppose we could look at the precedent other idol markets have in history with regards to this

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[arbitrary_greay]

But America-Korea is not a perfect comparison, since as grey pointed out the American market is so much larger with country and rock having so much more support than Korea ever would, as well as the fact that America has long ditched celebrity-based variety as its primary entertainment. Japan on the other hand still has their idol system going in full swing with bubblegum still raking in the cash, and have been since at least the 50s.(OMG, searching the stars of that movie on YT is producing idol history GOLD, especially for a big band lover like me. Must restrain impulse to pime these links!) I think it's safe to say that Japan will still have their idol system around indefinitely, due to Asian culture, etc., that makes their history a much more ideal timeline to predict the future of Kpop, even if their Jrock/VK market is just as strong as their bubblegum. I'm no expert in Jpop, but I do know that the Johnny's bands have sounded the same for FOREVAR. Japan is definitely saturated by Johnny's and pretty much all of them top the

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[arbitrary_greay]

The talent pool has really been dilutedOh man, I just hit full circle. My first comment at grey's was kind of addressing this, because the evolution of Morning Musume itself was this cycle

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[cronodroid]

But this highlights something of a problem with the K-pop industry I mentioned above: it's extremely derivative of the American music scene. Furthermore, if this current generation comes to a screeching halt because of oversaturation and the R&B wave moves up to take its place, what's to stop the exact thing happening again, only faster and sooner as companies scramble to grab what they can

[iacus]

The idea of an objective judgment being possible for subjective things such as beauty, art, etc, is a very comforting thought. It means that it is possible for us to pick the “right” thing to like, and it gives us reasons for liking said thing. I don't just think Im Yoona is a pretty woman, I know she is prettier than any other; I don't just like song/band/genre X, I know that it is better than any other I could choose to listen to. This idea adds to our confidence and self-worth by affirming that the things we like or choose to consume are actually indicators of our intelligence; I am intelligent enough to recognize the value of a certain piece of art and like it, while other people, who are less smart than I, do not recognize the worth of this art and do not like it. Indeed this idea conflates the concepts of 'taste' and 'intelligence' into one, assuming that each informs the other. My good taste is a product of my high intelligence

[cronodroid]

No, you're right in that you shouldn't objectively view an inherently subjective issue. Then again, what isn't subjective? The thing is, trends and attitudes defy the idea of subjectivity. Why do so many people think Yoona is attractive? Why do so many people think Soulja Boy is crap? The opinions of the masses may not count for much when it's a commonly held attitude that popular opinion is stupid, but academically we almost always use mass opinion to determine various things

[iacus]

That idea is called "intersubjective," meaning a subjective judgement that a large number of people agree on. It doesn't quite have the agreement obliterating weight that the term "objective" does.
http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2008/05/14/in-critical-condition/

Is vocal talent or ability to follow choreography blatant? What if I prefer to listen to someone who "can't sing" to someone who can?

[cronodroid]

That will rarely happen though because most people aren't tone deaf and a singer going off key or out of tune is instantly apparent to most listeners. You can also measure a singer's ability to hold a note, and their range quite easily.

Things like timbre are more subjective though, some singers are better liked than others because people enjoy the color of their voice more. Jessica definitely has better vocal control than Tiffany, but she has a bit of a sour tone whereas Tiffany has a richer, huskier voice although she makes vocal miscues more often.

[shinjirei]

this is a great read with ideas going back and forth and i regret not being able to contribute but can only agree to the points that you guys have posted :P

i kinda agree with cronos where the pace at which new groups are introduced might be detrimental to the kpop scene. after my obsession with snsd i find myself falling into the abyss called kpop and i'm kind of satisfied with the current idols are churning out. then don't know who knows when new groups are coming at such an alarming rate i'm getting a little sick of it. what makes it worse is the new groups are not really that good in terms of quality. look at chichi coin jackson ugh!

but whether it would destroy kpop i agree with AG. it's just a whole process/phase. when one phase ends another comes up, that is always how things went.

PS: it is because i couldn't stand the american music that i turn to kpop..guess i'm old and not going along with the flow..haha