Comments | snsd_ffa: Too many new K-pop idol groups debuting...my assessment.

cronodroid in snsd_ffa

Too many new K-pop idol groups debuting...my assessment.

Mar 20, 2011 17:41

Hey guys! I'm Crono. This is just a quickie regarding my favorite Meta topic: the K-pop industry. Mind dump warning…

( I may or may not like rookies very much... )

group: kara, *meta, group: big bang, group: 2ne1, group: dongbangshinki

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OMG I LOVE THIS COMM arbitrary_greay March 23 2011, 22:09:23 UTC

They should slow down the release of so many rookies before the K-Pop industry implodes.Well, I suppose we could look at the precedent other idol markets have in history with regards to this ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM arbitrary_greay March 23 2011, 22:09:36 UTC

But America-Korea is not a perfect comparison, since as grey pointed out the American market is so much larger with country and rock having so much more support than Korea ever would, as well as the fact that America has long ditched celebrity-based variety as its primary entertainment. Japan on the other hand still has their idol system going in full swing with bubblegum still raking in the cash, and have been since at least the 50s.(OMG, searching the stars of that movie on YT is producing idol history GOLD, especially for a big band lover like me. Must restrain impulse to pime these links!) I think it's safe to say that Japan will still have their idol system around indefinitely, due to Asian culture, etc., that makes their history a much more ideal timeline to predict the future of Kpop, even if their Jrock/VK market is just as strong as their bubblegum. I'm no expert in Jpop, but I do know that the Johnny's bands have sounded the same for FOREVAR. Japan is definitely saturated by Johnny's and pretty much all of them top the ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM arbitrary_greay March 23 2011, 22:09:48 UTC

The talent pool has really been dilutedOh man, I just hit full circle. My first comment at grey's was kind of addressing this, because the evolution of Morning Musume itself was this cycle ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM cronodroid March 25 2011, 08:51:51 UTC

But this highlights something of a problem with the K-pop industry I mentioned above: it's extremely derivative of the American music scene. Furthermore, if this current generation comes to a screeching halt because of oversaturation and the R&B wave moves up to take its place, what's to stop the exact thing happening again, only faster and sooner as companies scramble to grab what they can ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM cronodroid March 25 2011, 08:52:03 UTC

As for the Korea-Japan comparison, I don't know. You bring up a lot of good points, so I'll chalk it up to Japanese culture (pop culture) being quite different from Korean pop culture. I don't think Japanese pop culture has ever really tried to appeal to a Western or international market. In Korea, Japanese groups are not popular at all, and whether that's because of lingering resentment or lack of international appeal is debatable. But Kara, Soshi, BoA and DBSK are much more popular by comparison like you said. Maybe the Japanese have an enormous appetite for their domestic creations, whereas because K-pop is already heavily influenced by American music the Korean audience won't be able to stomach much more. Even if that isn't the case, the influx of so many new K-pop groups is detrimental to international success, if nothing else. Fewer people give J-pop the time of day compared to K-pop for the main reasons "it's all samey and it isn't really the sort of music we're used to" and "Korean idols are so much hotter". The second point ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM arbitrary_greay March 26 2011, 05:59:13 UTC

what's to stop the exact thing happening again
Nothing. My point was that these cycles are natural and inevitable, especially if you consider that it's already happened in Kpop with there being an idol group generation gap with a HOT era vs. the DBSK era.
This is inherent to the idol system because at the point at which they have more musical freedom and having a large role in their production they cease to be idols and become full-fledged artists.

Furthermore, one can argue that the Jpop idol system is even more stifling(if you want I can provide examples) and yet theirs has been happily treading water for decades longer than Kpop.

Unfortunately, this would probably lead to the current idols we all know and love eating it too.As idol groups, yes. But looking at previous precedents in American and in Kpop itself this likely means that the Top idol groups will disband but that individual members will go onto solo careers as musical artists rather than idols. Lee Hyori. Ock Juhyun. Kim Taewoo. Justin Timberlake. I definitely ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM arbitrary_greay March 26 2011, 05:59:24 UTC

if it ever reaches the point where there are too many groups to handle, they'll start focusing their efforts on the domestic market rather than trying to appeal to the rest of us in the outside world.Other than the elitist bullshit that would result like restricting image distribution to locals only, I don't care about who Kpop is trying to appeal to. I'm one of those people that enjoys Kpop partially because it is foreign(don't have to wince at retarded lyrics because I don't know that they're retarded) and as an international fan I'm not really affected by any of their moves anyways. Except for, as grey noted, when the amount of media available drops while they try to move to a bigger market. Focussing efforts on the domestic market might increase the music quality because they'd be striving to find that Korean sound the way Gee embodies, so at least they'd end up with something new the way Gee was ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM cronodroid March 26 2011, 21:56:14 UTC

I'm not a person who wants to restrict my genre to only the elite listeners (which is unfortunate because I'm also a big EDM listener and most of them are elitist), nor do I want to dominate everyone and force them into the glory that is K-pop. But I like K-pop and I kinda want them to stop failing so much when they could do a lot better.

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM cronodroid March 26 2011, 21:52:05 UTC

Furthermore, one can argue that the Jpop idol system is even more stifling(if you want I can provide examples) and yet theirs has been happily treading water for decades longer than Kpop. I have no doubt that is the case, but the treading water thing is precisely the point I'm bringing forward. K-pop obviously has aspirations to expand globally but they appear to be treading water; making profits where they can but not producing a particularly appealing product (mostly). That's the only contention I have with so many new K-pop groups debuting, I really don't have a problem with it because they can come out with good songs, but it seems like they're rushing it a little. I know they don't have the time or money of the big dogs but a lot of people in the past have done a lot of good with very little money. I guess idol groups are much more expensive than singer-songwriters what with paying to appear on music shows, filming MVs, creating dozens of costumes (lol), etc. but debuting idols when they're just not ready is a silly business ( ... )

Re: OMG I LOVE THIS COMM cronodroid March 26 2011, 21:52:16 UTC

Not going to touch the looks debate. No wait, I think I will.
Looks, again, are hard to judge objectively. However, speaking from the Asian male perspective, there's always been a perception (unfair or not) that Japanese women are not as attractive as their Korean/Chinese/Vietnamese counterparts. Most of my Asian female friends and relatives maintain that Japanese men are hot though, so it balances out :P

Your links were a little disappointing to be honest :3 They're not bad, but plastic or not I could post the pictures of my so-called "K-Pop The List" and they (again in my opinion) would crush pretty much any idol I've seen come out of Japan. No wait, I think I will too! I don't even have to bring out the big guns (Soshi) :P Anyway, this is beside the point, we could get every listener of J+K-pop to argue about which female idols are better looking and we may never come to a conclusion. But I get the feeling, speaking as a heterosexual Asian male, that female Korean idols would win if we considered the opinion of other heterosexual ( ... )

compiling arbitrary_greay March 27 2011, 04:39:33 UTC

But I like K-pop and I kinda want them to stop failing so much when they could do a lot better.
I like that you're so optimistic. Most of my arguments have been general "this is how the idol system is" pessimism, but I like how you are proposing plausible solutions that in some cases have been partially implemented.
However, I still believe that the saturation of groups and the rushing of production is inevitable per wave of any new form of media, and that in the long run this saturation isn't that detrimental to the success of the big names. After all, I am one of those people who don't care about any of these new groups because I have SNSD. Nine Muses doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Kpop at all. My bringing up Jpop successfully treading water is that your original point seemed to be that it would kill Kpop.

Anecdotal
LOL, I think I've permanently turned raingilded off of Jpop because I've purposely traumatized her with some of its more more horrifying products. >:D Although actually, having to sit through the horrifyingly cutesy Jpop ( ... )

Re: compiling cronodroid March 27 2011, 09:34:40 UTC

I wouldn't mind seeing Koda Kumi wrestle with someone like G.NA in order to determine hotness. But it'd have to be baby oil, I don't like colors ( ... )

Re: compiling arbitrary_greay March 27 2011, 15:16:48 UTC

Mmmm, baby oil bikini wrestling. Although man, Japan really does have every fetish covered.

Eh, I disagree with VD outfits being recycled since basically all SNSD outfits since TMYW have been recycles of the hotpants formula(especially Hoot being a rehash Oh outfits minus the numbers) Besides which it's not like the RDR choreo itself was particularly inspired.(I already made a rant about it. XD) But I never watched the VD MV in detail or its performances so I can't really compare.

Oh, so you're abs man huh?

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