Has anyone delved into the mirky waters of Klaus's genealogy? As I'm new to the fandom, I might have missed something in either canon or past discussions, but as far as I know, what we know is that
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What you put right there is pretty much all we know about Klaus's lineage, because (Aoike-san said somewhere) he himself is not particularly interested. A lot of ficcers (*koff*) have endowed him or his father with a title - often "Graf", probably just because the word is uniquely German - which is plausible, what with him having a castle and all, but never confirmed in canon.
I know this wasn't all that helpful, but look on the bright side: it means that you can improvise as you please!
Yeah, I'm going to run with whatever works best for the story, but I don't want to make any Major faux pas (pun intended) if something in the manga had hinted in a certain direction.
While we know that Tyrain Persimmon was of Spanish descent, I don't suggest linking the Major with the Spanish branch of the Hapsburgs.
Interesting tidbit: A son of Leopold II was Archduke Rainer of Austria whose wife was from the House of Savoy; a daughter Adelaide, Queen of Sardina was the wife of King Victor Emmanuel II of Piedmont, Savoy, and Sardinia and King of Italy. Their Children married into the Royal Houses of Bonaparte; House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha {Bragança {Portugal}; House of Savoy {Spain}; and the Dukedoms of Montferrat and Chablis.
Prince Albert was of the Royal House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and studied at the University of Bonn. He married Queen Victoria, who, so firefly1311 says, was conceived at an obscure town in Germany named Eberbach.
I shall continue the use the the kick ass icon. ;-D
*nods* We studied the Hapsburg chin deformity in Biology in college, when we were learning about genetic defects - like the haemophilia in the Romanoff (and other) lines. They basically inbred themselves to death.
Huh, that's an interesting tidbit!
(and I love the kick-ass icon, too. It's so Klaus!)
Yay! I can see not just the fiction but also a nice essay here... *Dorian!ShoulderDevil pokes Diana with a tiny golden pitchfork*
By the way, shouldn't Tyirian be from the distaff side?
If Persimmon is Tyrian's surname, and not some stupid nickname ("hi I am Persimmon" -- "Hi I am Laurel" -- "Hi I am Thyme") he must be a maternal descendant, otherwise we'd have Klaus Persimmon. Unless they shot the embarrassing surname out of existence: but they are too traditional to have a name change, I suspect.
I've wondered about that too. I thought perhaps the Persimmons had been at some point granted an honorary new surname for service to the Crown or some such and let the weird old one fall into disuse, but I'm not even entirely sure that ever happened, historically. I got the idea because I once read that sometimes Germans used to be punished for crimes by being saddled with embarrassing last names, like "Goldwater" which sounds great in English but not so much in theirs, but that nowadays their stubborn descendants see no reason to change them and not to go around with last names that mean stuff like "vomit" and "idiot" (i.e. Johnny Depp's ancestors).
I suppose it's more likely that at some point in the lineage, there was only one surviving child to inherit and it was a girl, and she married a man named Eberbach.
Yep, I might work up an essay from this, once I've done some more work. *G* Of course, the more I delve into the research - both of Klaus' possible family lines and the time period - the more I'm delayed on writing the story (and believe me - I can research something to *death*. One of the drawbacks of having a library sciences masters
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That's interesting; it's a Japanese custom that sometimes, if a couple has no sons, their son-in-law and grandchildren will have their family name instead of the usual paternal one.
Eberbach questiondkwilliamsMay 1 2010, 18:51:17 UTC
Okay, while doing research for the above, I located the city of Eberbach. It is located 121 miles (194 km) from Bonn - which I suppose is why many writers postulate a Bonn apartment for Klaus because, wow, talk about your rough commute! Just confirming that we are using the real Eberbach for Klaus' home, not a fictional Eberbach located right outside of Bonn. (Because I'm trying to sort out just which State in the Holy Roman Empire he would have been in. In case you're curious - it would be Palatinate (Kurpfalz) until 1777 and then Bavaria after that until the Wars of the French Revolution, when it was occupied by France.)
Re: Eberbach questiondkwilliamsMay 1 2010, 19:24:11 UTC
An interesting bit of trivia, which I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before:
"In 1986 the novel was filmed with Sean Connery in the role of the Franciscan monk William of Baskerville, and some of the scenes of the film were actually shot at the Eberbach Monastery."
Re: Eberbach questionesdaJune 13 2010, 23:03:38 UTC
The monastery named "Eberbach" is NOT in Eberbach. It's just the monastery's name and it's in a totally different place! It's in the town "Eltville am Rhein" in the Rheingau region. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kloster_Eberbach
(I have visited both Kloster Eberbach and the town Eberbach, btw ^^°)
I just got around to reading the El Halcon scanlations done by pink_panzer, and learned a bit about Tyrian's ancestry and therefore Klaus's from it.
Let's see. Early in it, his mother tells a young Tyrian, “During the time of Queen Mary, your grandmother from the Farnese family in Toledo married into an English family.” That would be Bloody Mary, daughter of Henry VIII of the six wives.
His mother was married to an Englishman whose name I didn't catch, but Tyrian's real father was Gerard Peru. Gerard was Spanish but was in the English navy. It turned out he was a spy for Spain.
After Tyrian's first husband died - of wounds inflicted in self-defense by a 10-year-old Tyrian! - she remarried to the governor of Cornwall, Lord Bascom Persimmon.
Another interesting note: Tyrian converted from Catholicism to Protestantism when he joined the English navy, likely for political reasons - this was the reign of Elizabeth I.
There's also a summary of Seven Skies, Seven Seas here, but I haven't read it in years and don't recall if there's anything
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I've downloaded them but haven't read them yet, although I just refreshed my reading of the summary of SSSS, which gives his parents' names but nothing else.
Having the Farnese family link might help pin something down. The problem is that we never see a reference to Tyrian marrying, do we? It is possible that he married someone while he was off in Spain having his ship built; otherwise, he can't really be an ancestor, but rather, a cousin of an ancestor at most.
Well, the manga keeps referring to Tyrian as an ancestor, so he must be one. (And I don't like giving the idea up.) Given his habits with women, it's entirely possible he didn't marry Klaus's great-great-etc.-grandmother; after enough generations, the family would have been willing to acknowledge it. Or that he married her for ulterior political motives, which would certainly be in character.
There's an intriguing possibility. While Tyrian was doing all his skullduggery (i.e., hunting down Gilda, killing off his real dad, framing Benedict Senior), the Duke of Palma was the Governor of Spanish Netherlands. The Duke's name was Alexander (Alessandro) Farnese, and his mother was the illegitimate daughter of the Habsburg Emperor, Charles V, and as such was half-sister to the king of Spain. We could theorize an illegitimate daughter (he had one, but she's too young and well-documented for our purposes) given to Alessandro's cousin-to-some-degree, Tyrian, as a reward for his help/spying.
That also helps with a link to Eberbach itself: Alessandro's great-great-grandson married into the new Elector Palatine's family, and they were the overlords for the Neckar river holdings (Eberbach included). This Elector was also Catholic, unlike his predecessor, which would explain Catholic Eberbachs in an area that was very Protestant.
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I know this wasn't all that helpful, but look on the bright side: it means that you can improvise as you please!
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Interesting tidbit:
A son of Leopold II was Archduke Rainer of Austria whose wife was from the House of Savoy; a daughter Adelaide, Queen of Sardina was the wife of King Victor Emmanuel II of Piedmont, Savoy, and Sardinia and King of Italy. Their Children married into the Royal Houses of Bonaparte; House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha {Bragança {Portugal}; House of Savoy {Spain}; and the Dukedoms of Montferrat and Chablis.
Prince Albert was of the Royal House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and studied at the University of Bonn. He married Queen Victoria, who, so firefly1311 says, was conceived at an obscure town in Germany named Eberbach.
I shall continue the use the the kick ass icon. ;-D
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Huh, that's an interesting tidbit!
(and I love the kick-ass icon, too. It's so Klaus!)
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Thank you. ;-D
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By the way, shouldn't Tyirian be from the distaff side?
If Persimmon is Tyrian's surname, and not some stupid nickname ("hi I am Persimmon" -- "Hi I am Laurel" -- "Hi I am Thyme") he must be a maternal descendant, otherwise we'd have Klaus Persimmon. Unless they shot the embarrassing surname out of existence: but they are too traditional to have a name change, I suspect.
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I suppose it's more likely that at some point in the lineage, there was only one surviving child to inherit and it was a girl, and she married a man named Eberbach.
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"In 1986 the novel was filmed with Sean Connery in the role of the Franciscan monk William of Baskerville, and some of
the scenes of the film were actually shot at the Eberbach Monastery."
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It's in the town "Eltville am Rhein" in the Rheingau region.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kloster_Eberbach
(I have visited both Kloster Eberbach and the town Eberbach, btw ^^°)
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Let's see. Early in it, his mother tells a young Tyrian, “During the time of Queen Mary, your grandmother from the Farnese family in Toledo married into an English family.” That would be Bloody Mary, daughter of Henry VIII of the six wives.
His mother was married to an Englishman whose name I didn't catch, but Tyrian's real father was Gerard Peru. Gerard was Spanish but was in the English navy. It turned out he was a spy for Spain.
After Tyrian's first husband died - of wounds inflicted in self-defense by a 10-year-old Tyrian! - she remarried to the governor of Cornwall, Lord Bascom Persimmon.
Another interesting note: Tyrian converted from Catholicism to Protestantism when he joined the English navy, likely for political reasons - this was the reign of Elizabeth I.
There's also a summary of Seven Skies, Seven Seas here, but I haven't read it in years and don't recall if there's anything ( ... )
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Having the Farnese family link might help pin something down. The problem is that we never see a reference to Tyrian marrying, do we? It is possible that he married someone while he was off in Spain having his ship built; otherwise, he can't really be an ancestor, but rather, a cousin of an ancestor at most.
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That also helps with a link to Eberbach itself: Alessandro's great-great-grandson married into the new Elector Palatine's family, and they were the overlords for the Neckar river holdings (Eberbach included). This Elector was also Catholic, unlike his predecessor, which would explain Catholic Eberbachs in an area that was very Protestant.
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