Comments | rattlesnakeroot: Flag Waving

rattlesnakeroot

Flag Waving

Jul 22, 2008 08:32

This is dedicated to David English in response to the following:

Posted by David English, post 180:

BTW, just to clarify, I don't know when I first saw the flag wave in this conflict, but I do know that RDR began by getting all patriotic about the First Amendment. And then Joe Nocera in the NYTimes brought up the whole notion of those Brits not ( Read more... )

constitution, patriotism, america, flag, u.s.a.

Comments 48

Only a couple of the founding fathers were born in America???? pdmcmurry July 22 2008, 18:03:45 UTC

I checked Washington, J. Adams, S. Adams, Hancock, Jefferson, Paine, W. H. Lee, P. Henry, Madison, Hamilton. You could check more - those were just quick off the top of my head ( ... )

Re: Only a couple of the founding fathers were born in America???? rattlesnakeroot July 22 2008, 18:24:27 UTC

Thanks for the research. I didn't bother because some of the founding fathers became Presidents, and then we know for sure they weren't English citizens anymore. *lol ( ... )

Re: Only a couple of the founding fathers were born in America???? rattlesnakeroot July 23 2008, 01:52:41 UTC

My husband, who is the historian in our family, just laughed when I asked him how many of the founding fathers were born in England. He said, "How about none of them except Thomas Paine." I told what you wrote about Hamilton.

So these guys were at home in the Colonies. :) They were raised eating cornbread and Virginia ham.

Re: Only a couple of the founding fathers were born in America???? pdmcmurry July 23 2008, 14:18:03 UTC

Yes, they really were Americans by that time, not British, but it took a while for that idea to take root. It was a common sentiment to consider one's home colony as one's "country."

Actually, I found a source that said of the 56 signers of the Declaration, 8 were foreign-born. Two were English, 2 Scots, 3 Irish, 1 Welsh. That's 14%.

It's not as if the colonies had only a few thousand people. There were an estimated 2.5 million people living in the 13 colonies in 1776. I could not find records, but it seems intuitive that there would be more native-born than foreign-born in a population of that size.

The Revolution was born largely out of a sense of separation from England, and that would naturally increase as the population became more and more native-born.

Thread 5

potionsmistres July 22 2008, 18:06:04 UTC

Hmm...Constitutionality and election campaigning are two different things. Not sure how he sees where they fit, especially in context of copyright, fair use and first amendment.

rattlesnakeroot July 22 2008, 18:26:17 UTC

None of it fits. He is totally off-topic as he usually is.

Additionally... pdmcmurry July 22 2008, 18:13:26 UTC

One of, perhaps, the leading British political philosopher who was a contemporary of the founding fathers, Edmund Burke, basically argued that the aristocracy had a divine right to govern. That is hardly the kind of "English" idea found in the Declaration or the Constitution.

Re: Additionally... rattlesnakeroot July 22 2008, 18:25:38 UTC

Great point! *lol*

kamion July 22 2008, 18:22:08 UTC

When the subject Patriotism becomes involved, I think I am froma different planet, well I am Dutch, so patriotism only plays a part when there is a soccermatch against Germany and flag waving is something for Queen's Day and maybe because we turn over Amsterdam in one huge fleamarket.

Last night someone who is held resposible for the death of about 8000 men was arrested, and it is a matter of time till he will be extradited to the International Tribunal in The Hague, I am spealing about mr. Radovan Karadzic, one of the leaders in a bloody war that was all about etnicity, nationalism and patriotism.

we Dutch did not particular shower ourself with glory in that conflict, so "Nationalism" make me quite a bit nervous.

And I really don't understand why that had to dragged in into the RDR-JKR affair. The chief plaintiff may be English, but the conflict was initiated along very American lines drawn by ms. Cendali in the first place.

rattlesnakeroot July 22 2008, 18:32:27 UTC

I read about that guy getting arrested - wow!

Don't worry - I am strictly a peacetime patriot and I hate war. I want a President who will stop these overseas wars and let the troops come home. I think everyone has pride in their own country, and that's natural.

But usually on forums, people are not allowed to be dismissive of those from other countries just out of boredom. And this is, as you say, an American case in a U.S. District Court, so that's why we talk about our Constitution and not that of the ancient Romans. *lol* It's so weird that he harps on that.

The non lawyer legal expert exhpfan July 22 2008, 20:16:19 UTC

"The problem with controlling the colonies is that all the leaders are lawyers." My favorite quote from an English Governor to the King of England in response to the King's demand that he get control of his colony ( ... )

Re: The non lawyer legal expert exhpfan July 22 2008, 21:43:11 UTC

The problem with davidenglish is that he isn't a lawyer and doesn't think like one, but he thinks he does.

So true. Far too many posters on the LL take what davidenglish says as gospel and he clearly revels in the attention he receives. When you deconstruct his comments though all you are left with are fanciful words and no substance. He sucks up to Melissa whenever she deems to make an appearance and gets away with the nonsense he spouts.

KS