"glory always makes the blood of women flow."

[prozacpark]

I generally don't like ranting about things I dislike (because ranting about things I like is just so much more fun). But. Unconditional Supernatural love just sets me off.

This site is wondering if Supernatural is as good as Buffy. And, um, no? A world of no, even. How can anyone even compare something as misogynistic and sexist as Supernatural

Comments

[meganbmoore]

What about blaming the fans and the writers?

[prozacpark]

I'm blaming both! But, I sort of blame the writers more? I mean. Okay. The fangirls are idiots. You have the women hating fangirls in every fandom, but you don't see all of those fandoms killing their women to please those idiots.

I possibly need to watch the "Bella Bites It" episode in its entirety, but I'm sort of intrigued by the subtext in the scene you linked me to after it first aired? Like, the writers know that she's getting the short end of the stick, but they just don't care enough to make it better. Which pisses me off more than anything.

Really, if the show sticks with its own thing, it will eventually attract people who don't hate women. But as it is, it's a never-ending cycle of suckiness.

Randomly, have you seen the third season yet?

[meganbmoore]

NO! The show and I are officially broken up until it learns how to keep non-evil vaginas attached to living women around for more than a few episodes.

And yeah...why is it that this show seems to make all decisions based on the rabid, vocal minority, when most writers know that it's best to just ignore them?

[prozacpark]

You mean you won't watch the last Bela episode with me so we can be appropriately bitter about it? :)

Exactly. And this is why I almost totally blame the writers for this crap. They created a universe that sustains itself by deaths of women that then serve to motivate the heroes. The premise is problematic to begin with, the fangirls don't help, and the writers aren't aware of the gender issues at all so they don't see the problems there. I mean, why couldn't Jessica have had some tragedy in her past that compelled her to persuade Sam to go on a mission with her brother that she could've joined them on? Why did she have to die to motivate Sam? This show's definition of heroism excludes women from it, and that disturbs me.

[lyssie]

Penis > vagina? That's all I got, from either side.

At least Buffy got to kill things.

[prozacpark]

Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. How very Freudian of them.

It's not that "Supernatural" didn't, at times, bring creepy, fun horror, but my horror at their treatment of women and the general state of the fandom is so much greater.

[oberongeiger]

The only reason I liked Buffy was for Spike, and they treated him awful.

Anyone who says this? Their opinion on ANYTHING is immediately discounted, forever and ever. Because Spike was so fucking milked on that show that I was enraged by how he took over Buffy for the last few years. It became Buffy and Spike and sometimes their sidekicks. And even after he tried to rape her, we were supposed to still care about him and like him and want them to be together? FUCK to the THAT.

And if this person is telling me that SPIKE FANS weren't even pleased? Then guess what: Nobody was happy with that fucking show by the end.

[meganbmoore]

Spike fans make me wish I didn't know Buffy fans, in a way. Nothing says "Yay!" like being grouped in with people who think attempted rape was ok. (I still liked him as a character, but was extremely annoyed with how his narrative took over Buffy's, and pissed at how they pretty much made it OK for him to still be her love interest after he tried to rape her.)

[ixat_totep]

As I've said in another comment, I hate how Spike wrenched the center of the show away from its original ensemble balance. The attempted rape thing was horrible, although in the writers' defense, I thought it was clearly portrayed *as* horrible, and that it was designed to show Spike that he really wasn't a human with fangs, and motivate him to get his soul. The problem with all of that was how it was just kinda swept under the rug after that, especially by Spike's fans. Just kind of "oh, I was soulless, so it's OK". Blah.

[meganbmoore]

Yeah, I didn't mind the attempted rape as a plot point when it happened for just those reasons. But then they played it as he was still an acceptable love interest for Buffy...

[viciouswishes]

I dislike that show so much. When it first started, I watched the first three episodes and then stopped due to the exact reasons you mentioned. I remember being at a fan con after S1 and having to say several times "no" without getting into a long conversation about why.

No way Supernatural would even touch Buffy. It has yet to reach any culture beyond its fandom and fandom_wank. When it leaves, it leaves.

Don't even get me started about Spike fandom. I actually started as a Spike fangirl, but between the show, fangirls, and meeting the Marstersbator himself, agh. What a train wreck.

[meganbmoore]

When it leaves, it leaves.

Unless the fandom clings and clings for eternity. Then again, the fandom (as near as I can tell) is composed mostly of rabid slash fans (not to be confused with nice, sane ones) and people who are in it to crush on guys, and those sorts tend to move on quickly when there's nothing new. Outside of the anime/manga fandom, where they insist on lingering for eternity and swearing that Gundam Wing is secretly the love story of Heero and Duo.

And...I hate to ask, but what's Marsters like in RL?

[viciouswishes]

I would never discount the fact that so many people jump ship after the ship has sunk. Sure you always have the marginal fandoms and yeah, the crazy incest is the best slashers will probably be the ones that remain... However, I'm not sold on it as a lasting text, even in fandom.

Train wreck. He will answer any question, no matter how personal or inappropriate, and basically do anything. At the con I saw him at, he answered a question about how he lost his virginity and kind of bragged. And then when I asked him his favorite book, he went on and on about the book but never mentioned an author or title. (Of course, I'd been shuffled back to my seat by then.) No impressed.

I've also heard some crazier tales about him being drunk and getting a little friendly with fangirls who were possibly not legal age. And I know he talked about shaving his balls on the radio. (In his defense, I think it was Loveline. But still.)

[prozacpark]

Usually, I would ignore something I dislike this much? But the misogyny on the show tends to reach me through fandom osmosis, and I do think that the show's treatment of women is problematic on a level that's not confined to it just being a bad show or just to its fandom. I mean. Just look at the misogyny it brings out in its fans. I fear to think what sort of views of women it's infecting all those girls with. And yeah, fandom is often big on ignoring women, but the level of hatred for all women in this fandom is a whole new level of insanity. And...the show does justify it by tuning every woman evil since the fans expect them to be evil because of the text that's already been established. It's a never ending cycle of misogyny, possibly.

And yeah. I was a huge Spike fangirl too before the last two seasons slowly killed my love for him and then replaced it with a burning hatred.

[ixat_totep]

I recently encountered this show (I mean, I'd heard about it for years, but never paid attention until now). And yeah, it did seem pretty heavy on the "let's kill girls to motivate men". And yes, I pick "girls" and "men" instead of "women" or "boys" on purpose