Discussion post - more speculation...

[g_shadowslayer]

I've been checking out some of the flashbacks, and some of this stuff is making me very curious. I'm putting the parts under cuts just because otherwise this post is going to end up huge...

First, there's the theory I floated earlier about Nathan. From Super, here's some selected dialogue from the flashbacks:

Comments

[litlover12]

Some very intriguing ideas there!

I really, really want to know why Alicia reacted the way she did to Harold's name.

[g_shadowslayer]

Thanks!

That's one of the things I keep coming back to - considering she ran off to somewhere 'off the grid' and got so freaked, whatever's going on there has me fascinated.

[linfer]

"I'm starting to wonder if the source of information for the various missions Snow, Stanton, & Reese were on (legitimate or otherwise) was the Machine itself. "
Stanton made a comment about having this very reliable source. Given the circumstances, plus Snow's comment makes it pretty clear in my opinion that John first worked on the other side of the Machine. An irony I like very much. :o)

[sharpiesgal]

That would make a kernel for a very good fic, if handled well.

[stellary]

I like this A LOT.

[g_shadowslayer]

I also like the irony in it. :-)

[g_shadowslayer]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were both working on Machine-intel-related things. I really love the way everything interrelates (we saw this in the main plot of episodes, with Vertannen, Baylor/Zimm, & Elias, too).

You're right on Nathan's timeline - I doubt Snow would have later let him go so whatever happened to him in 2010 could happen. So I'm back to the "package" being Weeks... (or one of those other unknown 4 people...)

[g_shadowslayer]

...

Sorry - got distracted by your Sasha icon :D

There's this little side-idea my OH & I came up with that could make things really ugly. What if Root is Stanton? Doesn't explain her knowing Harold, but it could complicate things immensely...

Good thought on Alicia. Hmmn...

[sunnybea]

I've thought that Reese has always been the Machine's asset since the first time Stanton said "anonymous source, very reliable". I always figured that if they take the 'Machine (TM) is sentient' route than TM chose Reese for some reason and later on led him to Finch. I also figured that'd be a season 4 or 5 revelation, lol

[g_shadowslayer]

Thanks for your great comments!

I always figured that if they take the 'Machine (TM) is sentient' route than TM chose Reese for some reason and later on led him to Finch. I also figured that'd be a season 4 or 5 revelation, lol.

I love that idea so much... (And it wouldn't be the first time I really jumped the gun by a season or three figuring out something the authors have planned. I did it with a major revelation in Babylon 5 and then had to put up with 2 years of 'oh, that's a crazy idea, they wouldn't do that' comments... This is one of the reasons I usually avoid spoilers like the plague!)

[brickhousewench]

What everyone seems to forget is that scene where Ingram meets up with Alicia Corwin in the park? All he gives her is a Number. It seems that is all that the Machine is programmed to spit out. I suspect it's some sort of Finch failsafe against abuse. The Machine doesn't tell anyone what the number means, the government still has to do enough detective work to figure it out and to build a case against the Number that will hold up in court.

A Number. That's all the get.

[sunnybea]

Prevents backwards engineering /nods.

[g_shadowslayer]

Exactly. It only gives them a number.

But, "build a case against the Number that will hold up in court" doesn't really seem to apply to any of the jobs Snow's team worked on. I don't really think Snow was overly concerned about trials and legalities when he's running ops in the US (something the CIA isn't supposed to do) and disappearing people.

[brickhousewench]

Yes, but I expect that there is an entire office of government analysts that worked on each one of those Numbers. Which then led to various covert operations and arrests.

It's just that every time someone says "The Machine gave them intel" it makes me twitch. The Machine points them towards a Number. They still have to do the work to figure out what that number means. (And in the case of non-US citizens, they probably have to first figure out what the number is? Passport ID? Phone number? etc.) Because you can't get an arrest warrant based on information received from a Machine that only 8 people in the world know exists.

And in the case of Snow and Co. Even if they don't have evidence that hold up in court, someone at the CIA still had to figure out what direction to point them in. Analysts. Lots and lots of analysts.