in which p is a kid-hating bitch!

[pocochina]

You all know what I love?  An exhortion by a non-feminist for feminists to be nicer young ladies,* and just remember how much we love babies.

It’s really telling to me that this person specifically chose a feminist blog on which to lecture people about the appropriate feelings to have towards children.  Because remember, this person has

Comments

[bluemage55]

There's something both ironically amusing and face-palm inducing about a "Think of the children!" argument used to advance the idea that children belong in bars...

[pocochina]

Basically! Then she can get Bad Mommied in a mainstream mag, and feminists can defend her because Bad Mommying at someone is anti-feminist, and then we can be the kid-hating bitches. Got it!

[pixxelpuss]

I had to give up a practicum site that worked with kids because of immuno-suppression. I also gave up one working with Sick People. I guess that makes me viciously anti-sick person.

[pocochina]

how a kid exposed immuno-compromised patients in her ward to deadly infections

That's a good point. I honestly didn't get halfway through the comments before I started shaking with irritation at people bending over backwards to be Good People and show off their appreciation of New Intersectional Identity Politics, so I missed that, but it does make sense.

Reading between the lines of that story, it does look like the nurse was kind of an asshole - instead of telling the commenter where she could safely put her kid, she just started with the bullying - and that would upset me too, but your issue should be with bullies who don't want to do their jobs, not with people who are MEAN on the INTERNET.

[pocochina]

Karynthia wrote a post saying basically the same thing, you might be interested.

It's an important point. Adults-only spaces are no fun for kids, either, and if you can't go to them because you have no child care or support system, that's a social failure alright, but it's not on behalf of feminists, who have been working to change that for decades.

[pixxelpuss]

Here's my perspective. Kids are people. They live in the world. Should we protect them against actual harm? Absolutely. Does that mean they deserve to go anywhere? No.

I'm not welcome in operating rooms, or spaces specifically designed to be safe-spaces for a designated community, or restaurant kitchens or men's rooms, or honestly, most "kid-friendly" places unless I have a kid with me. There are cities passing laws preventing (situationally) childless adults from attending playgrounds or standing near schools.

In my opinion, there are and should be places that are similarly unwelcoming to children. This would honestly be less important if it weren't for the hordes of idiots who think that public spaces need to be dumbed down and policed to the level of appropriate for kids.

[pocochina]

Yeah. And the equation of that with sexism, racism, or the type of ageism that keeps people from earning a living is kind of insulting.

[pixxelpuss]

Yeah, I'm still plowing through the comments on the thread, and it's a bit fucking insulting. Kids GROW OUT OF being kids. Kids have varying degrees of agency. Kids are literally IMMATURE people. Development implies the passage from an immature state to a mature state

[pocochina]

And I'd LOVE to have a productive conversation about how society can BETTER SERVE families and thus diminish the way that women predominantly bear the burdens of parenthood, while men are more likely to reap the rewards.

I really agree. And unfortunately, one of the things impeding progress on that issue is the misconception that feminists, being kid-hating harpies, are REALLY the main threat to kids' well-being, not a threadbare social safety net, reproductive coercion into parenthood of people who don't want it, and a lack of regard for motherhood. I just don't have a lot of patience for someone who reinforces that based on cosmetic issues like ladies being rude given the opportunity to talk about the larger issues, which - SAY IT WITH ME, FOLKS - are consistently recognized as feminist issues.

[jadeserenity]

I dunno, it seems to me like you have completely missed the point on this one. :(

Like, this:
“ladies, I exhort you to do your duty, be nice and coo over babies”
Not even close to what is being said. At allThe information is there to be understood and I really don't feel like I could explain it better than mai'a and others already did so I'm just going to note a couple things with regards to "why would a feminist site want this not feminist posting there anyway, she's so awful

[pocochina]

I'm a little concerned that you're coming into my space, questioning my reading comprehension, and then having a straw-argument with things I deliberately didn't say. In fact, with things I took care not to say, because I do not think they are true. I know that thread got heated and dissolved into us-and-them camps really quickly, and I think you're attributing an entire set of the "them" opinions to me based on that and not based on my actual words. So in the interests of clearing the air, I'll break it down.

“ladies, I exhort you to do your duty, be nice and coo over babies”
Not even close to what is being said. At all.

Quote from the OP: much more helpful is to take a deep breath, send warm energy toward the mama and kid, give a sympathetic smile, and maybe even start talking with the kid to distract her from whatever has her upset at the moment.I didn't say it was the sum total of the post, and I understand there was other stuff to it. But it is there. And, as folks in the comments pointed out and as I reiterated above,

part 1

[jadeserenity]

Yes, I'm disagreeing with what you're taking from her post. I think you're extrapolating stuff from it that wasn't there and yes, I think you're missing the underlying reasons why she is talking about what she is talking about (and this impression is utterly reinforced by the fact that you think the discussion of kids and power is "off point;" it's not, it's absolutely central to what/why mai'a is talking about here).

But I also think there are perfectly legitimate reasons for all of these things (as outlined well by Sady), that have nothing to do with your reading comprehension, and much more to do with culturally entrenched ways of thinking about children reinforced by struggles in recognition of validity of being child free and feminist concerns about motherhood (coupled with the fact that for many women, feminists have not done shit for them, which is especially important for feminists to talk about/deal with). All things that mai'a (and the other post I linked by Arwyn) were trying to challenge and get us to think about

Re: part 1

[pocochina]

Yes, I'm disagreeing with what you're taking from her post

That is fine, but that is not what you did. You put words - words that demonstrably not what I said into my mouth in order to have the argument you wanted to have. Which is pretty questionable, because I am guessing your own journal works, so you did not have to have it here. And I do dismiss heated arguments directed at me at things I deliberately did not say as flaming, because it is.

Not because I think your reading comprehension isn't good

Except, funny story. The information is there to be understood and I really don't feel like I could explain it better than mai'a and others already did That is exactly what you did say. So, I said what's convenient for you even if I didn't say it, you said what's convenient for you even if you didn't, I get how this game works!

I think this is the first time that our invisible culturally disseminated ideas about the privileged position of adults is being challenged for youOh, please, presume what I do and do not know; that