Re: Ah, ignorance.kali921December 3 2007, 21:29:34 UTC
I see. Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying; I do appreciate it. So you're using it as a value neutral statement? Please understand that in the American (and often the Western European) larger gestalt on racism and intolerance, pointing out the fact that someone is OMG JEWISH can easily risk people making negative assumptions about your intent. You can say or articulate things that convey a distinct impression of racism, xenophobia, etc. without meaning to, and when someone points this out to you, it is not an automatic condemnation of you as being a racist. One can also hold racist attitudes and not be consciously racist; in fact, one can hold racist attitudes and yet articulate a desire to not be racist at all
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Re: Ah, ignorance.kali921December 3 2007, 22:24:09 UTC
...where did I say that I was a liberal? Does calling you out on language that can read as potentially racist automatically equate with liberalism in your Weltenschauung?
Re: Ah, ignorance.theonlykowDecember 4 2007, 11:46:50 UTC
Wait, so you're saying that it's someone else's fault, someone from the nebulous "well documented track record" of the past, that you assigned your own false value to a benign phrase?
Re: Ah, ignorance.gillpolackDecember 4 2007, 01:17:02 UTC
What would you have said if the person was a Jewish Armenian, though? Do all Jews lose their nationality, or only Russian Jews?
I'm very happy with my nationality, BTW - especially this week - and I don't want to be casually denuded of it because I'm Jewish, so, for the record, if you ever want to describe Australians please remember that there's a whole group who are clearly Jewish Australians.
Re: Ah, ignorance.ahousekeeperDecember 4 2007, 07:27:52 UTC
> if you ever want to describe Australians please > remember that there's a whole group who are > clearly Jewish Australians. Because there is NO such ethnic group as Australians. As for the rest read the thread, everything is said there multiple times.
RE: Edited commentahousekeeperDecember 3 2007, 20:47:17 UTC
Per your edit...
> racist twit.
I had to go to webster's to see what's "twit". I mean, do you think anyone in the world would answer you like: "Yes, I'm a racist, yes, I'm an idiot" even he was the most satanic xenophobe in the history of humanity? :)
A student from the American university in Bulgaria whom I got suspended for a semester for his racist remarks these days "fights racism" as a president of People to People International club - an organization set to spread tolerance and understanding, though I am more than sure that he hasn't changed his views since the time he wrote the letter. He has just become more careful and has learnt how to disguise his feelings.
Re: Edited commentkali921December 3 2007, 21:49:45 UTC
Oh, my friend. Welcome to America, where we have an entire demographic of people who proudly and publically claim the epithet "racist." They self-identify as racist. They are proud to be racist. They make no apologies for it, nor do they consider it a negative trait in any way whatsoever. Sadly.
Re: Jews, not RussiansadrexiaDecember 3 2007, 23:02:21 UTC
What about Russians from Russia? Are they Russian-Russians?
I guess you could call them Russian Aboriginals. ;)
I think it's the Jews not Russians bit that people have reacted to. To the rest of the world they are Jews and Russians. People outside Russia tend to see "Russian" as a nationality rather than an ethnicity(as opposed to as well as...). I guess it just gets a bit messy when you use the same word for ethnicity and nationality/state-citizenship.
Also, why would it matter to us whether they were native Russians or not? Surely it amounts to the same thing? i.e. a company based in Russia now owns LJ...
Not that I think it makes the slightest bit of difference where LJ is based.
Re: Jews, not RussiansadrexiaDecember 4 2007, 00:18:47 UTC
Are you saying that a Jewish person wouldn't be pegged as Russian if they spoke the Russian language, or with a Russian accent, in say, Peru?
Well - to the English speaking world they are both. "Russian" is the English word meaning "someone from Russia". Calling them "Russian Jews" implies that they are both Russian and Jewish. I can't see a way around that in English
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Because he is.
If he was Armenian, and someone said "Russians are taking over LJ" I would say: "He's actually Armenian"
I'm constantly having problems commenting here ("database maintenance, blah-blah-blah"), so I will post an entry in my journal
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I'm very happy with my nationality, BTW - especially this week - and I don't want to be casually denuded of it because I'm Jewish, so, for the record, if you ever want to describe Australians please remember that there's a whole group who are clearly Jewish Australians.
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> remember that there's a whole group who are
> clearly Jewish Australians.
Because there is NO such ethnic group as Australians. As for the rest read the thread, everything is said there multiple times.
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> racist twit.
I had to go to webster's to see what's "twit". I mean, do you think anyone in the world would answer you like: "Yes, I'm a racist, yes, I'm an idiot" even he was the most satanic xenophobe in the history of humanity? :)
A student from the American university in Bulgaria whom I got suspended for a semester for his racist remarks these days "fights racism" as a president of People to People International club - an organization set to spread tolerance and understanding, though I am more than sure that he hasn't changed his views since the time he wrote the letter. He has just become more careful and has learnt how to disguise his feelings.
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I guess you could call them Russian Aboriginals. ;)
I think it's the Jews not Russians bit that people have reacted to. To the rest of the world they are Jews and Russians. People outside Russia tend to see "Russian" as a nationality rather than an ethnicity(as opposed to as well as...). I guess it just gets a bit messy when you use the same word for ethnicity and nationality/state-citizenship.
Also, why would it matter to us whether they were native Russians or not? Surely it amounts to the same thing? i.e. a company based in Russia now owns LJ...
Not that I think it makes the slightest bit of difference where LJ is based.
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NOt the rest of the world, but Western world mostly.
Here are some examples:
http://ahousekeeper.livejournal.com/137013.html?thread=1668149#t1668149
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Well - to the English speaking world they are both. "Russian" is the English word meaning "someone from Russia". Calling them "Russian Jews" implies that they are both Russian and Jewish. I can't see a way around that in English ( ... )
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