Comments | new_wonderland: I would've conquered the world for a smile

snowhite_dahlia in new_wonderland

I would've conquered the world for a smile

Jan 10, 2010 19:50

So, Wonderland royalty. I was re-watching parts of Alice last night, and came across the last scene between the Queen and King of Hearts - you know the one, where the Queen is all, "Zomg we gotta go" and the King is all "uh yeah no, not so much." And it got me thinking about how succession and government and all that kind of stuff works in ( Read more... )

character: queen of hearts, questions about canon, character: king of hearts, discussion

Comments 16

just_smiling January 11 2010, 03:05:08 UTC

In "Alice in Wonderland" the royalty is set up like playing cards, and in "Through the Looking Glass" it's set up like chess where Alice meets more royalty within Wonderland (Red Queen/King, White Queen/King). I suspect in another part of Wonderland there are the King/Queen of Spades, Diamonds, & Clubs.

So, as far as the books there is probably 6 royal families in Wonderland.

In the books the Red Queen and the Queen of Hearts weren't the same... and it was the Red Queen/King and White King/Queen in the books with the battle/chess match. But in this version they've altered a bunch of things since this Queen of Hearts wasn't the one in which original Alice met, as far as I can remember.

I suspect they're trying to say that after "Through the Looking Glass" and the match between White/Red the Queen of Hearts attacked the White kingdom and things became what they became.

But all the Queens appeared to have the same power or more then the Kings and original Alice was trying to become a Queen herself. But overall government... not sure.

just_smiling January 11 2010, 03:16:14 UTC

So, as far as the books there is probably 6 royal families in Wonderland.

But in the books Alice is only ever introduced to 3... I'm just guessing there maybe 6. Although in Syfy Alice the Queen of Hearts uses the other suits as themes in her kingdom even though Spades are the highest rank within a deck of cards.

snowhite_dahlia January 12 2010, 04:41:47 UTC

Perhaps the Queen of Hearts (in addition to wiping out the White Knights) took over the other suits' kingdoms and "enslaved" (for lack of a better word) them into her one single monarchy. I feel like the SyFy Queen of Hearts would not tolerate the notion of having other queens running about.

snowhite_dahlia January 12 2010, 04:39:33 UTC

Ah, thank you! This certainly helps to illuminate things, especially about the whole Red vs. White thing. Although, I still wonder about the supremacy of the Queen over the King beyond the chess comparison - maybe it's part of the "nonsense" of Wonderland. XD

I suspect in another part of Wonderland there are the King/Queen of Spades, Diamonds, & Clubs.

This could make for good fic.

femme_cat January 11 2010, 05:21:01 UTC

I think she seized power, but was always royalty. Like maybe she killed off her competition. The White Knights are most likely that of the old way, and therefore stand in the way of "change" (her wanting to kidnap and exploit Oysters) and pose a threat to her rule.

In the Looking Glass Wars, the Queen had more power than the king and the Heart suit was the ruling family. Whereas, the other suits, were like Lords and Ladies. I kinda like to think this fandom is similar. =)

snowhite_dahlia January 12 2010, 04:46:17 UTC

I think she seized power, but was always royalty. Like maybe she killed off her competition.

Yeah, I could totally get on board with this - all the other heirs having very unfortunate "accidents" with Mad Marche coincidentally being in the same area as said accident. I also like your reasoning for her killing off the Knights - that certainly make sense.

Whereas, the other suits, were like Lords and Ladies.
I could see this, or as I posted above, perhaps the other suits were originally their own kingdoms and then the Queen went on a power spree and conquered and subjugated them into her own kingdom.

(Also, your icon is killing me with the cute.)

femme_cat January 13 2010, 04:07:43 UTC

Indeed, Mad March is always near such unfortunate incidents. A major coincidence, me thinks..

And I think the other suits ruling their own kingdoms sounds really interesting. I wonder if the ladies ruled, or the men.

(And I love this icon, it kills me too.)

kemokage January 11 2010, 11:27:24 UTC

In the original book the Queen and King of Hearts are the only monarchs in Alice in Wonderland all of the other card suits are beneath them as servants or soldiers or whatever and all of the royal children are all of the numbered heart cards. Also fun fact the knave of hearts (or the jack) is put on trial by the king and queen I kind of wonder if Nick Willing purposefully drew off of this incident ( ... )

snowhite_dahlia January 12 2010, 04:50:43 UTC

the knave of hearts (or the jack) is put on trial by the king and queen I kind of wonder if Nick Willing purposefully drew off of this incident.

Proof positive that I am missing SO MUCH by not re-reading the original books. XD I'm sure that Willing certainly drew from that for the story.

kemokage January 12 2010, 04:57:02 UTC

Yeah I'd like to think that he did. I just finished rereading the books which I found on my bookself recently and they are just the most beautiful copies that have fresh illustrations from the original woodblocks which apparently my grandparents had given to me when I was younger.
The books are both fairly short so it wouldn't take you long to read them. It was so much fun for me to read them again. I hadn't heard the original stories in ages and now I include little references from the books in the Alice fanfic I'm writing. : )

ayumidah January 11 2010, 23:41:52 UTC

my personal little fanon was that Vincent held all the power but the queen was so blown from tea addiction that she never realized when the subjects did what Vincent said over what she did (Like the scene where she said to behead that one Club and Vincent nixed the order...?) I should post my Alice fics here, been meaning to.

snowhite_dahlia January 12 2010, 04:47:53 UTC

Ah, okay! Like the Queen runs around as if she's in charge, while the King is the one who's really pulling the strings behind her back. Sort of a "don't mind the man behind the curtain" scenario. I like this!

ayumidah January 12 2010, 06:17:46 UTC

Precisely :D

(The comment has been removed)

Thread 5

aisarete January 12 2010, 23:17:20 UTC

Just for watching Alice, I kinda assumed (and I know where that gets me, but meh) that Wonderland is ruled by women traditionally, but that the Queen wasn't originally royalty. I got more of the impression that the King was originally the Crown Prince, and whoever he married would become the next Queen and ruler (just like in old fairy tales, where the princess marries and whoever it is, peasant or prince, becomes the next king). And now Jack is the Prince, with Duchess being groomed as the next Queen ( ... )