1: 'Go back to being General of my nuts!' - a tongue twister or a Freudian slip? Umm...I love you for posting this question. Tom was having so much fun with Miles in that scene. Loved when Tom was like, I don't wanna watch your lips move when you read. Hee. Honestly I think this line came from pent-up frustration with his superiors in the Militia over the years. Did Tom respect Miles as a general? Yes. In Love Boat, he said it was good to be working with professionals again. But I also get the sense that he thinks Miles is not as smart as he is (and Miles picks up on this, hence HIS line at the end of Love Boat when he declares he's smarter than Neville, sounding rather like an 8 year old on the playground.) Despite the respect Tom had for Miles, he always feels personally betrayed by Miles since Miles defected. Back in Soul Train why Miles deserted was one of the first things Tom asked him even though they were locked in hand-to-hand combat. I think Tom was genuinely curious there (because he himself was doubting Bass) but was also
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Religion - I think Tom...adopted the facade of a pious man? Not necessarily consciously, but he remade himself from scratch post-Blackout and I think that being the scripture-quoting man of letters was part of that? It makes him look deep and spiritual, it gives him authority by contagion and the Bible can be used for pretty much anything.
I think it is real in the sense that Tom doesn't necessarily know it's not real? I'm not sure it would stand a test of faith type situation though.
Is Neville a misogynist? This gets to the complicated question of Julia for me. He appears to love Julia deeply - to the point where Miles knows she's Tom's Achilles' heel. What are some of the reasons people think Tom's a misogynist?
Tom tends to reset to gender-based insults when angry. He calls Charlie a 'pert little bitch', he calls Nora 'mamacita' (gender and race based) and he sneers something about dresses at Jim and Miles in Clue. Personally, I think it is a reflection of his crippling inferiority complex. Someone who really thinks they are
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there are plenty of misogynists who love their wives.Well certainly. I didn't mean to imply there weren't. I was just trying to think of anything relating Tom to women, since I didn't recall the comments you brought up en masse (although once you did I remembered how much I cringed at the "mamacita" thing.) I think there is bigotry that is part of social convention and structures (often personally unexamined and more internalized - and extraordinarily common among Americans) and then there are more personally realized founts of misogyny. Not that one or the other is more acceptable - I'm just wondering if you think Neville is the type who actively hates and demeans women or is more of the type who accepts social structures that suggest women are weaker, etc., and degrades them without giving it much thought? There has been a lot of talk in the U.S. military lately about how to extract the age-old misogynistic language used to train soldiers (e.g. using female-gendered insults like "pussy"). Now that the U.S. military is fully
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You do need to poke me if I sound snotty sometimes :) I don't MEAN to, I just get tangled up in making sure my position is clearly stated. (Define your thesis statement hangups!).
Ok - I was going to comment but I am on my iPad and that means I can't see the post I am replying to. So I will be back - later!
I can't be bothered answering questions, but - because I love Tom I will say:
A) I'm glad he's around. He balances out the power play between ALLTHEMATHESONS (Team Matheson) and Bass. Coz he's completely separate from all those issues, he's not family -- he's nothing close to it...he doesn't even like them, any of them, and he hates being bossed around, but he believes in order and structure. His motivations bring in new complications, new complexities and Giancarlo is AMAZING at playing him.
B) His relationship/interactions with his son almost make Nate/Jason/Nipples interesting. Which is huge, coz I wrote him off, all the way back in 1.05...and YET he just keeps showing up. And I love Jason's confusion when he encounters his father (it's almost like he only met the guy a few months ago); coz Tom will push him away, then pull him back, save him, leave him - all depending on the situation. And Jason never seems to know what's next (though the audience has a fairly good idea), so he reacts like a brat with amnesia and trust issues -
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I like Neville's character, but I don't like...the structure the show seemed to be trying to build around him?
Yeaaaah. I get that. Like, where is this TOM HAS BASS' ARMY s/l going to go, exactly? He didn't earn it. He didn't amass a mutiny, he played for the other team, got caught and convinced (WHO LISTENS TO A CAPTIVE'S IDEAS, OMG) them to overthrow the rules...somehow.
And now he's stuck. I don't see him running things.
...now and having watched the S2 promo, (I started writing this about 10 hours ago and then forgot about this window being open O_O) I gotta say, yeh. Tom how you like the power now XD
And I with you on the rest. I just wonder how well Julia even knows Jason. Because otherwise she could have helped him in some way, or steered him towards having goals and motivations that are deeper than impressing some girl.
Tom appears quite disgusted - of course, he knows, or suspects, that the whole bomb thing was a ploy by the 'US' government. It could have cost him is wife - the only thing he really cares about - so it could actually be interesting. He gets to actually BE a rebel, maybe?
I would be interested in working out whether this 'government' would have any legal standing. Did the President know what was going to happen in enough time to flee the country and pull a Hitler by sidestepping the voting process till the status was quo once more? Or was it simply that the people left in Guantanamo declared themselves the government on the grounds they were the last functioning cell of the US political machine? The ranking military officer there MIGHT have known about the Tower...
1: 'Go back to being General of my nuts!' - a tongue twister or a Freudian slip? Neville was never part of the Miles fan club (he wasn't invited) but always wanted to be and resented them all for it, this is his passive-aggressive way to vent those feelings. I think it's just Neville's crass way of getting a rise out of Miles- I still remember in episode 5 his "I'm not going to just bend over and spread my legs" comment and who can forget his "borderline erotic fixation" comment to Bass? I think in this "tough military men" setting, this is how Neville talks when he wants to piss someone off. Either that or it's his latent homosexuality trying to emerge.
2: Is Neville a misogynist? I don't think Neville is the problem here, I think it's the whole damn Militia. General Miles was creepy and rapey, Bass was creepy and rapey, every other Militia guy tries to rape a woman- I think it's a systematic problem and it probably connects with the (lack of) visibility of Militia-women. I do think Neville loves and respects Julia and I never saw
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5: Anything you want to address?I wish the show had actually developed the Tom-Jason relationship. After 1X5, when we find out Nate is Jason and a Neville, I was waiting for them to explore that dynamic- how they got to a place where Tom is ok with letting Miles kill Jason (rather than giving Danny up). I think the writers missed an opportunity here, because Jason being obsessed with Charlie is not an interesting storyline, but Jason being a Neville, his relationship with his parents and how things between him and his dad deteriorated so much? Now that's interesting and worth exploring. Even later when we got more Jason-Tom scenes (that were good and interesting) they never really addressed what happened there. Unless you're telling me that the big game changer in their relationship was 6 y-o Jason seeing his dad kill someone, but I don't believe that
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Bass is competent! Sometimes! Umm...he...ummm....he did very well with the Drones! And he turned Jim! (Since Jim apparently just left his wife in an easy to find place as he swanned off to join the rebels).
As for Tom and Jason...eh....at this point I don't care enough about Jason to want to see anything new about him? It would be interesting that what we've got so far - god, Jason was an empty vessel who apparently believed in nothing and no-one until Charlie's boobs - but it would need to actually happen before I got invested. If that makes sense? At the moment I wish they'd just vaporised Jason, so we could have Tom and Julia running the show back east while Charlie hunts Bass through a whorehouse.
Bass is competent! Sometimes! Umm...he...ummm....he did very well with the Drones! And he turned Jim! (Since Jim apparently just left his wife in an easy to find place as he swanned off to join the rebels).
That whole mess with Jim, don't get me started. The only competent bad guy was Randall and now he's gone.
As for Tom and Jason...eh....at this point I don't care enough about Jason to want to see anything new about him?
I know how you feel. I don't actively hate Jason, I just find him boring and bland, and his weird obsession with Charlie is creepy. But I feel like there's potential there for a decent character, if they distance him from Charlie and focus on him being a Neville and his relationship with his dad/mom. That being said, if in the first episode of S2 he ends up dead, I won't bat a lash or mourn his loss.
Jason was an empty vessel who apparently believed in nothing and no-one until Charlie's boobs Yeah, it's a problem. It would be one thing if we'd see him giving a crap about the Rebels or the state of the
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I think it is real in the sense that Tom doesn't necessarily know it's not real? I'm not sure it would stand a test of faith type situation though.
Is Neville a misogynist? This gets to the complicated question of Julia for me. He appears to love Julia deeply - to the point where Miles knows she's Tom's Achilles' heel. What are some of the reasons people think Tom's a misogynist?
Tom tends to reset to gender-based insults when angry. He calls Charlie a 'pert little bitch', he calls Nora 'mamacita' (gender and race based) and he sneers something about dresses at Jim and Miles in Clue. Personally, I think it is a reflection of his crippling inferiority complex. Someone who really thinks they are ( ... )
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Ok - I was going to comment but I am on my iPad and that means I can't see the post I am replying to. So I will be back - later!
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A) I'm glad he's around. He balances out the power play between ALLTHEMATHESONS (Team Matheson) and Bass. Coz he's completely separate from all those issues, he's not family -- he's nothing close to it...he doesn't even like them, any of them, and he hates being bossed around, but he believes in order and structure. His motivations bring in new complications, new complexities and Giancarlo is AMAZING at playing him.
B) His relationship/interactions with his son almost make Nate/Jason/Nipples interesting. Which is huge, coz I wrote him off, all the way back in 1.05...and YET he just keeps showing up. And I love Jason's confusion when he encounters his father (it's almost like he only met the guy a few months ago); coz Tom will push him away, then pull him back, save him, leave him - all depending on the situation. And Jason never seems to know what's next (though the audience has a fairly good idea), so he reacts like a brat with amnesia and trust issues - ( ... )
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Yeaaaah. I get that. Like, where is this TOM HAS BASS' ARMY s/l going to go, exactly? He didn't earn it. He didn't amass a mutiny, he played for the other team, got caught and convinced (WHO LISTENS TO A CAPTIVE'S IDEAS, OMG) them to overthrow the rules...somehow.
And now he's stuck. I don't see him running things.
...now and having watched the S2 promo, (I started writing this about 10 hours ago and then forgot about this window being open O_O) I gotta say, yeh. Tom how you like the power now XD
And I with you on the rest. I just wonder how well Julia even knows Jason. Because otherwise she could have helped him in some way, or steered him towards having goals and motivations that are deeper than impressing some girl.
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I would be interested in working out whether this 'government' would have any legal standing. Did the President know what was going to happen in enough time to flee the country and pull a Hitler by sidestepping the voting process till the status was quo once more? Or was it simply that the people left in Guantanamo declared themselves the government on the grounds they were the last functioning cell of the US political machine? The ranking military officer there MIGHT have known about the Tower...
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2: Is Neville a misogynist? I don't think Neville is the problem here, I think it's the whole damn Militia. General Miles was creepy and rapey, Bass was creepy and rapey, every other Militia guy tries to rape a woman- I think it's a systematic problem and it probably connects with the (lack of) visibility of Militia-women. I do think Neville loves and respects Julia and I never saw ( ... )
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5: Anything you want to address?I wish the show had actually developed the Tom-Jason relationship. After 1X5, when we find out Nate is Jason and a Neville, I was waiting for them to explore that dynamic- how they got to a place where Tom is ok with letting Miles kill Jason (rather than giving Danny up). I think the writers missed an opportunity here, because Jason being obsessed with Charlie is not an interesting storyline, but Jason being a Neville, his relationship with his parents and how things between him and his dad deteriorated so much? Now that's interesting and worth exploring. Even later when we got more Jason-Tom scenes (that were good and interesting) they never really addressed what happened there. Unless you're telling me that the big game changer in their relationship was 6 y-o Jason seeing his dad kill someone, but I don't believe that ( ... )
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As for Tom and Jason...eh....at this point I don't care enough about Jason to want to see anything new about him? It would be interesting that what we've got so far - god, Jason was an empty vessel who apparently believed in nothing and no-one until Charlie's boobs - but it would need to actually happen before I got invested. If that makes sense? At the moment I wish they'd just vaporised Jason, so we could have Tom and Julia running the show back east while Charlie hunts Bass through a whorehouse.
(Hopefully he won't sniff anyone's hair).
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That whole mess with Jim, don't get me started. The only competent bad guy was Randall and now he's gone.
As for Tom and Jason...eh....at this point I don't care enough about Jason to want to see anything new about him?
I know how you feel. I don't actively hate Jason, I just find him boring and bland, and his weird obsession with Charlie is creepy. But I feel like there's potential there for a decent character, if they distance him from Charlie and focus on him being a Neville and his relationship with his dad/mom. That being said, if in the first episode of S2 he ends up dead, I won't bat a lash or mourn his loss.
Jason was an empty vessel who apparently believed in nothing and no-one until Charlie's boobs Yeah, it's a problem. It would be one thing if we'd see him giving a crap about the Rebels or the state of the ( ... )
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