there are plenty of misogynists who love their wives. Well certainly. I didn't mean to imply there weren't. I was just trying to think of anything relating Tom to women, since I didn't recall the comments you brought up en masse (although once you did I remembered how much I cringed at the "mamacita" thing.) I think there is bigotry that is part of social convention and structures (often personally unexamined and more internalized - and extraordinarily common among Americans) and then there are more personally realized founts of misogyny. Not that one or the other is more acceptable - I'm just wondering if you think Neville is the type who actively hates and demeans women or is more of the type who accepts social structures that suggest women are weaker, etc., and degrades them without giving it much thought? There has been a lot of talk in the U.S. military lately about how to extract the age-old misogynistic language used to train soldiers (e.g. using female-gendered insults like "pussy"). Now that the U.S. military is fully integrated, there is widespread recognition of how detrimental this is to unit cohesion (especially given the extremely high rates of sexual harassment and assault in the military). I bring that up because Miles and Bass had been trained under the system that still allowed such gendered bias (or was at least in transition), and probably didn't stamp it out in their Militia ranks. On a totally unrelated note...the women in the Militia thing. What the H is going on with that? There are only women around when it's convenient. The Rebels seem to have a better balance going on...or seemed. I guess they're demolished at this point.
Back to Tom. The comment that Tom made to Miles and Jim: wasn't that after Jim joked that Miles better start wearing a dress since Miles had been the reason he lost his wife? I think Tom was quipping off of that line. Again, not defending him (it certainly couldn't occur to me to quip off that line: "ladies") - just trying to recall context, if he's one of those an unexamined, social-structure type misogynists.
He is a bully - and a coward at heart - and feels the need to pull other people/genders/races down because that is the only way he can establish himself as the 'better man' in his own head. All that seems right on for Neville. Again, I don't think too much about him. He's not really my thing. :)
You do need to poke me if I sound snotty sometimes :) I don't MEAN to, I just get tangled up in making sure my position is clearly stated. (Define your thesis statement hangups!).
Ok - I was going to comment but I am on my iPad and that means I can't see the post I am replying to. So I will be back - later!
I think Tom degrades everyone because that is how he shores up his self-image? The scene in...the exploding train episode wasn't it?...where he was battering his men in a fist fight despite knowing they wouldn't fight back properly, then battering on an 18 year old asthmatic, exemplifies Tom for me. He struts and postures and preens in order to stop anyone realising 'what he is really like' or what he THINKS he is really like.
His issues with women do seem real though. Julia does play Macbeth, the nudge in the dark, the word in the ear - nothing straightforward or open, all the little manipulations that make him feel good and nudge him the right way - and the whole pert little bitch and mamacita things (when there was no around who seemed likely to be impressed) were nasty and vaguely off-putting.
Although apparently Tom went from the religious, Southern gentleman gig in the first half to the poor man's Miles Matheson in the second because Giancarlo had a 'word with the writers'. I need to catch the panel myself - but not till I am done with my already jossed fic :D - but a couple of people have noted that (although one said it was a dig at the writers...which isn't always a good idea).
Well certainly. I didn't mean to imply there weren't. I was just trying to think of anything relating Tom to women, since I didn't recall the comments you brought up en masse (although once you did I remembered how much I cringed at the "mamacita" thing.) I think there is bigotry that is part of social convention and structures (often personally unexamined and more internalized - and extraordinarily common among Americans) and then there are more personally realized founts of misogyny. Not that one or the other is more acceptable - I'm just wondering if you think Neville is the type who actively hates and demeans women or is more of the type who accepts social structures that suggest women are weaker, etc., and degrades them without giving it much thought? There has been a lot of talk in the U.S. military lately about how to extract the age-old misogynistic language used to train soldiers (e.g. using female-gendered insults like "pussy"). Now that the U.S. military is fully integrated, there is widespread recognition of how detrimental this is to unit cohesion (especially given the extremely high rates of sexual harassment and assault in the military). I bring that up because Miles and Bass had been trained under the system that still allowed such gendered bias (or was at least in transition), and probably didn't stamp it out in their Militia ranks. On a totally unrelated note...the women in the Militia thing. What the H is going on with that? There are only women around when it's convenient. The Rebels seem to have a better balance going on...or seemed. I guess they're demolished at this point.
Back to Tom. The comment that Tom made to Miles and Jim: wasn't that after Jim joked that Miles better start wearing a dress since Miles had been the reason he lost his wife? I think Tom was quipping off of that line. Again, not defending him (it certainly couldn't occur to me to quip off that line: "ladies") - just trying to recall context, if he's one of those an unexamined, social-structure type misogynists.
He is a bully - and a coward at heart - and feels the need to pull other people/genders/races down because that is the only way he can establish himself as the 'better man' in his own head.
All that seems right on for Neville. Again, I don't think too much about him. He's not really my thing. :)
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Ok - I was going to comment but I am on my iPad and that means I can't see the post I am replying to. So I will be back - later!
Reply
His issues with women do seem real though. Julia does play Macbeth, the nudge in the dark, the word in the ear - nothing straightforward or open, all the little manipulations that make him feel good and nudge him the right way - and the whole pert little bitch and mamacita things (when there was no around who seemed likely to be impressed) were nasty and vaguely off-putting.
Although apparently Tom went from the religious, Southern gentleman gig in the first half to the poor man's Miles Matheson in the second because Giancarlo had a 'word with the writers'. I need to catch the panel myself - but not till I am done with my already jossed fic :D - but a couple of people have noted that (although one said it was a dig at the writers...which isn't always a good idea).
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