Warnings: Not for Sirius Black fans.

[menolike]

Part (3)
Title: How innocent was Sirius Black?
Spoilers: Prisoner of Azkaban (PoA), The Order of the Phoenix (OotP)
Summary: This is a multi part (3) piece.
Beta by my ever wonderful "cho_sa" 
A/N: I would very much appreciate it if you do not go after my blood/head/or any other part of my physiology. A/N2: I would like to thank

Comments

[randomjitter]

I agree that Sirius Black isn't a very pleasant person in the books. But a lot of what you discussed can be just as easily attributed to plotholes. *sighs*, but let's not go there and open another can of worms.

He conveniently remained in Azkaban, even though he could have escaped at any time.

Perhaps he didn't know he could escape in his dog form. Perhaps he didn't have the will to escape before he knew Peter was alive. I agree this didn't reflect well on the strength of his personality. But let's be realistic - he grew up knowing hardly any hardship, to be then thrown in Azkaban could be quite tramatizing.

Mrs. Black never disowned Regulus, even though he tried to leave the Death Eaters and got killed for it.Interesting point. I never thought of it. Perhaps because Regulus never turned his back on his family, while Sirius did

[menolike]

But a lot of what you discussed can be just as easily attributed to plotholes. *sighs*, but let's not go there and open another can of worms.

I wonder if there is a community called "Plot-holes-Anonymous,". Maybe they'll let us join. All six of us (I counted).

Perhaps he didn't know he could escape in his dog form.

Not very bright. Was he?

Perhaps because Regulus never turned his back on his family, while Sirius did?

What I found strange was that 'Alphard' was removed for a very stupid reason 'giving Sirius money'. While Regulus was kept. Hmmm...Another plot-hole?

Sibling rivalry can be a bitch

Very true. You wouldn't believe the fights my brothers and I had.

Thanks for commenting so soon after I posted.

[keek_six]

he was exceptionally good in school..but being school smart isnt the same as being street smart or just clever...which im not saying sirius isnt...but im sure that azkaban broke his spirit..and all he needed was a spark of strength like when he saw that picture of peter as a rat..im sure he just needed that little bit of desperation. im sure his ability to turn into a dog was simplistic to him...and the simple things are often over looked in bad situations...

[menolike]

he was exceptionally good in school

Of course he was. Show me a rich kid who didn't receive some kind of 'special' education before hand.

im sure his ability to turn into a dog was simplistic to him...and the simple things are often over looked in bad situations...

At the risk of repeating myself:
Not very bright was he? No wit either it seams.

[courtaud]

Here via HP_Theories. Hope you don't mind.

• “Harry went right after Black, who was making Snape drift along ahead of them; he kept bumping his lolling head on the low ceiling.”
Thank you for pointing out this. I was under the impression that everybody find this an acceptable behaviour, even if no one of the 'good' people in the Shrieking Shack found the time to check out someone who was bleeding from the head and inconscious for quite a long time. Bumping his head again and again could have finished him.

Oh yes. Great offences indeed. This, ‘Sneaking around’ and ‘Trying to find out what we where up to’, sounds very dangerous to their well being.
They were doing things who could have gained them expulsion, no doubt. But at the time of the Prank it was not such a disaster. All of them had their OWLS, so they could perform magic and find a job. BUT. Aside letting a werewolf running free without danger to them (because werewolves don't do animals) and having more than one time a 'close call', as Lupin says (it is, he came really

[menolike]

Here via HP_Theories. Hope you don't mind.

Why would I mind? The more the merrier. The only reason I'm posting here, is because the rules did not say it wasn't allowed. Sometimes I see people doing a 'x-posting' to their journal. I have no idea how to do that, so…

Welcome.

Thank you for pointing out this. I was under the impression that everybody find this an acceptable behavior

You see; a lot of people think Snape deserves what ever harm befalls him. And don't forget, JKR did not make it un-acceptable.

because werewolves don't do animals

I remember thinking when I read PoA, 'Then what do they eat? Salad!?' .Werewolves in HP don't seem to be hunters except for the flesh of man (oh. Please, spare me).

they were perhaps dabbling in Dark Magic, or in whatever magic that let them create the Map, that is a moderately sentient being, and quite similar to Riddle's Diary.

Didn't think of it that way. Very interesting view.

Dumbledore, the most powerful and wise wizard of the magic world (For the sake of argument, let’s just assume he

[courtaud]

because werewolves don't do animals
I remember thinking when I read PoA, 'Then what do they eat? Salad!?' .Werewolves in HP don't seem to be hunters except for the flesh of man (oh. Please, spare me).
A werewolf is in his wolf form only for part of a night once a month, so he/she does not need to feed or starve. But the illness/madness/curse make him/her actively seek human beings to infect. The wolf form (it is NOT a wolf and has NOT a normal wolf's behavior) is not rational, to say the least, so it often bites its victims to death. Then it may or may not feed on them.

Why do I have this feeling that Lily was 'convinced' somehow to fall for James?That was Harry's first impression on the Pensieve scene, even if in her interview JKR told clearly that Lily was interested in James for a long time before allowing him anywhere near her. You know how we woman are

[changclaire5]

Then Sirius said clearly that Lily and James made Peter the Secret Keeper because he, Sirius, suggested it.

Hey, I've a better idea - they should have made Peter the secret keeper for their hiding place, and THEN make Sirius the secret keeper for the "secret" that Peter was the real secret keeper. Am I making sense? Then maybe make Lily/James the secret keeper for that. Wouldn't that just be superb?

Honestly, why can't James/Lily be the secret keeper for Godric's Hollow? Dumbledore was the secret keeper for Grimmauld Place.

[larilee]

Never been a big Sirius fan and you've summed up the reasons quite nicely. Except for the fact in OotP, he was also coaxing Harry into activities that could possibly get him injured or killed. Regardless of the question what kind of Godfather does that, I have to ask what kind of man encourages a teenager to take unnecessary risks when said teenager is the only hope for defeating a megalomaniac terrorist? It seems to need rather than wanting him to have fun, you would want him to buckle down with his studies so he might have a hope of doing it.

But I won't mention that Dumbledore allowed Sirius Black to rot in Azkaban without a trial and without questioning him. I don't want to go off-topic. :-)

[menolike]

when said teenager is the only hope for defeating a megalomaniac terrorist?

Poor Harry!

"megalomaniac"
mmm...I have to go and see what that word means. But it sounds nasty.

But I won't mention that Dumbledore allowed Sirius Black to rot in Azkaban without a trial and without questioning him. I don't want to go off-topic. :-)

You are so considerate.
Thank you.

[mugglegirl0908]

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a

1. A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.
2. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·ac

one affected with or exhibiting megalomania

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=megalomaniac

[courtaud]

(feels daring)

But I won't mention that Dumbledore allowed Sirius Black to rot in Azkaban without a trial and without questioning him. I don't want to go off-topic. :-)

I don't think that's off topic... one of the reasons for Sirius to be a reject of the Order in his very house was, I believe, that he knew first-hand how uncaring Dumbledore could be, and that he was unable to hide from other Order members what he tought of the Headmaster. In OotP Sirius was disconnected and suicidal, but he had some reasons to be.

Also, Dumbledore leaving Sirius to Azkaban for life, not even caring to interrogate him, probably came from the judgement he made of Sirius _before_ the betrayal of the Potter. Namely, he believed Sirius capable of betrayal and serial murder. Or he let others believe that he did.

This is going to be ridiculously long, and so it's coming in pieces.

[nicccc]

What we know of Sirius Black:
1. Very proud and sure of himself. With a, ‘I can do no wrong’ mentality.
2. Can easily hold a grudge. Prejudice, judgmental, cruel, and violent to those he does not like. Or to whomever he deemed unworthy or-in his opinion-bad.

[[The only person with whom he actively has any sort of ‘grudge’ with is Snape, and it would be hard to let go of such a thing if one (esp. one who is very headstrong and proud of his abilities) is being reminded at every turn how utterly useless one’s been rendered. I’d treat them with spite, too. I assume you also think of Snape as being particularly prone to grudges, because he is, and it’s shown to be so numerous times in canon]]

3. Unforgivable for people/creatures who either consciously or by accident did him- or the people he cared for- wrong. [[You forgive people that betray you? Then you are a far better person than I. I’m sorry, but once someone’s betrayed my confidence in them, I don’t trust them again, and I think this is a perfectly natural response for

Re: This is going to be ridiculously long, and so it's coming in pieces.

[nicccc]

And because of the indulgence of his teachers and schoolmates-by favoritism or lenient punishment- Sirius Black came to accept that he is always right.
[[I think part of this is also false bravado. There is canonical evidence that Sirius is insecure in regards to his relationships with other people, which usually stems from a lack of self-confidence in some area (certainly his mother did not help in this regard). In order not to dwell on any shortcomings (perceived or actual), actions may be rash, and you unapologetic for those actions. In the company of people he loves (and that he knows love him in return), he is quick to say he’s not proud of his actions as a teenager, which implies that he knows he was not always right.]]

Sirius did not forgive his brother, nor take into account his brother’s ignorance and his family’s influence on him. He also gave no thought of the pressure young Regulus was under after his big brother’s abandonment (Regulus was probably 18-19 years when he was killed). Sirius was probably jealous that even

Re: This is going to be ridiculously long, and so it's coming in pieces.

[nicccc]

We don’t know why or what drove the Marauders in general and Sirius and James in particular to target and bully Snape. But we do know that after 3 years following Hogwarts and 12 years in Azkaban, Black still enjoyed inflicting pain in Snape. [[And Snape didn’t delight in doing the same to Sirius? He nearly cost both Lupin and Black their souls over some schoolboy grudge. In doing the same to Harry, who had nothing to do with James and Sirius’s treatment of Snape in school? In doing the same to Neville Longbottom? To Hermione Granger? You’d be mad to just sit and take it.]]

\The way he treated Kreacher indicates his general behavior towards ‘lesser beings’. It’s very reminiscent to the way Lucius Malfoy treated Dobby, and Crouch Sr. treated Winky. It all gives an indication on how the pure-blood, noble, and rich families treated their elves. [[Kreacher goes round the house muttering about how awful Sirius is. Sirius treats Kreacher as he would treat any person saying those sorts of things about him, which shows far more respect

Re: This is going to be ridiculously long, and so it's coming in pieces.

[nicccc]

Oh yes. Great offences indeed. This, ‘Sneaking around’ and ‘Trying to find out what we where up to’, sounds very dangerous to their well being.
[[I honestly think he didn’t reckon Snape stupid enough to do what he said. Why would you follow the exact advice of your enemy? You’re asking to be set up for a trick doing such a thing. As for the lack of remorse, it’s the same thing as with Regulus from Sirius’s POV: If he (Snape) hadn’t been so stupid as to have done that, it wouldn’t have happened in the first place. And Snape’s trying to find out what they were doing was dangerous to their well-being in regards to expulsion]]

and a dog (inferior to a werewolf when it comes to physical strength, and can still get infected if bitten)
[[It says right in canon that were a werewolf to bite someone whilst that someone was in their animagus form, it would have no effect - hence why WPP became animagi in the first place]],

Using James (indirectly) when he was bored to find entertainment. [[Right, I’d forgotten the part where Sirius

[tree_and_leaf]

Dumbledore says at the end of OOTP that Sirius was kind to most house-elves. He just couldn't deal with Kreacher, becuase he reminded him of all the problems of the past.

I get a strong sense from Sirius' comments on Regulus that he wishes he had seen sense sooner. As far as the older Blacks not kicking Regulus out for leaving the DEs:

(a) we don't know for sure they ever knew about this, and

(b) even if they did, the fact that you come to disapprove of Voldemort doesn't necessarily mean you approve of treating Muggle-borns as equals. it might just mean that you draw the line at wholesale murder and horcrux making. Or, perhaps, that you've recognised that Voldemort wouldn't make a good puppet after all...