Linkspam: More gender stuff

[innerbrat]

I don't know if I'm getting more obsessed with sexuality and gender, or because that's where the interesting discussions and posts appear to be happening in my corners of the internet, or what, but my del.icio.us account is still full of equality stuff. I know it's International Blog Against Racism Week, but I'm very much an intersectionalist at

Comments

[innerbrat]

Very much with Mulan, yes. Gaston is still interesting, because his hyper masculinity did provide him with power, status and fawning girls. And the Beast,when he became - did he even have a Real Name™? - the prince, still fitted the body shape ideal.

I just think the video would have been better off focusing on general trends than those specific examples.

[innerbrat]

Yeah,. I have to agree with you actually. As one of the commenters remarked - it's a shame that the video had a point, but failed to make it.

[ginasketch]

See, I've always liked the crows in Dumbo- and yes I recognized them as portrayals of black people. The Jungle Book though? I just saw a dancing monkey and a bear.

It's interesting to note a while back there was a big hubbub about censoring the character Speedy Gonzalez because people were afraid it would offend Mexicans and Mexican-Americans.

Most of the people who wrote in to complain about the move were Mexican.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48872,00.html

[innerbrat]

Speedy Gonzalez, IIRC, wasn't a negative stereotype, but the hero of the piece. Stereotype, yes, but portrayed in a positive way.

I haven't seen Dumbo since I was very young, and never recognised them as portrayals of black people until recently. But again, weren't they sympathetic characters? Could that have been a very clumsy 'look, black people are all right really' move?

[ginasketch]

I haven't seen Dumbo since I was very young, and never recognised them as portrayals of black people until recently. But again, weren't they sympathetic characters? Could that have been a very clumsy 'look, black people are all right really' move?

Yeah that's what I thought. I liked them. I didn't carry away any negative stereotypes from the crows.

And being half Latin American, I have to say Speedy doesn't offend me at all.

[bookelfe]

Having seen the entirety of the 'Happy-Hearted Roustabouts' song, with lyrics, I . . . really cannot give Disney any props for effort in this particular movie.

Also, I think there is a difference between 'black people can be cool characters too' and 'hey, aren't black people funny and unthreatening! Listen to how silly they talk!' and I would put the crows squarely in the latter category.

[apiphile]

I have to say that finding racist potrayals in films made prior to MLK/Malcolm X/Rosa Parks etc does seem a weeeeeee bit like shooting fish in a barrel; the stereotypes portrayed are pretty gross, but not quite as confusing as "this is portraying black people" applied to monkeys in India. Am I missing something?

[bookelfe]

The thing is, though, that many of these films are still immensely popular today; I know I definitely watched them all growing up, and then saw them again while working at a preschool or babysitting.

I went to a presentation that was somewhat along the lines of the vid Debi linked a few months back in school. One of the audience members mentioned babysitting a friend's kid, and having him come running back to her away from the black kids on the playground because he was scared of the crows in Dumbo. They may not be current films, but because of their ubiquity, knowing where the problem areas are and recognizing them . . . I think it's still really relevant.

[apiphile]

There does need to be some ... hrm, how do I English this motherfucker? When I was a kid I really loved the original Dr Dolittle books, which are by today's standards astoundingly racist but by the standards of the time incredibly, subversively progressive. My mother would stop where she was reading and explain to me the differences in attitude and all the rest. I ... I think that something like that does need to be included; but I'm not sure how.

[gilhamilton]

Oh, there were all sort of Absurdly Racist Videos from the 40s to 70s. I remember one Warner Brothers Bugs Bunny one about the Japanese made during World War 2 that you couldn't help but laugh at because it was that over the top.

However, the Masculinity in Disney films movie seems way off, or at least seems really poor at choosing its examples and editing. Like, just about everything it did with Mulan. Of course, from the moment Mulan disguises herself as a man she is inundated with the idea that strength and prowess are everything... she just joined the army! They aren't going to say "We must use caring and understanding to make the Hsung-nu please, please stop burning down our cities

[timjr]

And when they threw in the bit from 'The Emporer's New Groove'?

I'm like "Wait, the point is that he's a d-bag until he goes through this whole journey..."

[davegodfrey]

I remember seeing some of those Absurdly Racist Cartoons on Rolf Harris' Cartoon Time, and he would explain how standards have changed and this sort of thing Isn't OK Now But Wasn't Considered Bad Then.

My apologies, Debi.

[pari_satis]

I just wanted to offer that it was only after you'd logged off that I'd realized to my horror you were asking me to not /continue/, not entreating me toward pacifism in such a situation, and that I probably grievously upset you with that listing of the savagery that transwomen can expect in day to day life. I'm deeply sorry for continuing in all of my righteous and morbid way, when I thought I was trying to justify myself against a pacifist sentiment, and really I was just hurting you by forcing you to dwell on such painful and horrifying things.

Re: My apologies, Debi.

[innerbrat]

I thought you might have had that impression, and would like to apologise for letting you remain with it - honestly, I'm ashamed that I blanked you after that. But I'm sure you can understand.

Thank you, Marina.

Re: My apologies, Debi.

[innerbrat]

Though I do have to add to clarify - my silence had nothing to do with the general savagery against transwomen and more about the very personal.

Telling someone who has suffered street violence this is how I'd deal with it comes out, intentionally or no, and this is how you should have dealt with it, which was very much the source of my discomfort.