Death Takes a Holiday

[impulsiveanswer]

Just a list of things I've been thinking about since the new episode last night that I need to get out of my head before family obligations take me away from internet access for the weekend.  You are now officially warned for spoilers:

Comments

[klutzy_girl]

1) Really good point. Dean tried to kill Sam with an ax. He should also be apologizing.

7) That was funny. The boys were back to normal for a minute or two.

8) Yay for them!

[impulsiveanswer]

7) There's been so much gloom and doom on the show lately - those little moments of levity are a breath of fresh air!

[stephie_nhbg]

hmmm, intresting. I do have some additional thoughts about your #1 though

[mimblexwimble]

Just because what Dean said was absolutely true and perfectly understandable and a lot of us (me included) have been waiting for him to say something, it doesn't make what he said any less hurtful. Sam hit Dean where it really hurt - Dean did the same thing to Sam. Now, bringing it up over and over is only going to make things worse, make it harder to move on, even a little.

Oh, boys. *sighs*

[stephie_nhbg]

I don't know, It would hurt me personally if someone I was close too said the things Dean said to me. But It's weird Sam really truly seems more, idk harrassed than genuinly sorry or upset about Dean bringing it up. This could be a by product of him using his demon powers, but still it makes me uneasy. Because Dean well he's being Dean, covering up one hurt by exageratting another. Sam, well he's different only time will tell if the change is permanent or not. And the whole bringing it up making it worse? Under normal circumstances yes it totally would. I'm pretty sure that the elephant in the room is what's really holding them back. Sam's lying. Because as screwed to hell as Dean's getting he still keeps giving Sam avenues to come clean. Which is if not on the road to healing, it's at least going in the right direction.

gosh these boys are giving me ulcers. I can't wait till next season, maybe they'll be actual brothers again. *sigh*

[impulsiveanswer]

But It's weird Sam really truly seems more, idk harrassed than genuinly sorry or upset about Dean bringing it up.

I don't think it's weird Sam comes across as more harrassed than genuinely sorry or upset. A person compelled to apologize multiple times can still be genuinely remorseful while thinking "Geez, how many times do I have to say it?", especially when it's clear the apologies haven't been and won't be accepted.
I'm pretty sure that the elephant in the room is what's really holding them back. Sam's lying. Because as screwed to hell as Dean's getting he still keeps giving Sam avenues to come clean.
One of the elephants in the room, at least. The other one is that Dean expected Sam to remain that innocent, idealist little brother and is angry that he didn't, even though logically there's no way that could happen after all the two of them have been through. If I were Sam I wouldn't be too eager to confide in Dean, seeing as it seems that half the time Dean's passing judgment, looking for ways Sam's "gone bad".

[mimblexwimble]

I don't know if Dean is being cruel, exactly, bringing it up again and again, but he's probably being a little insensitive. Sam obviously needs to get past this - all Dean's doing by raising the topic is reminding him of the distance. And he's only hurting himself too

[impulsiveanswer]

Sam obviously needs to get past this - all Dean's doing by raising the topic is reminding him of the distance.

Does he even realize what he's doing to Dean, at this point?
I don't think Sam's the only one who needs to get past this, and Sam isn't the only one who doesn't realize how his behavior is effecting the other person in his life - Dean's behavior is having similar effects on Sam. Sam may be guilty of lying, but Dean's guilty of judging Sam for not remaining his idealistic little brother and for coping with his death in a way Dean disapproves of. That usually it's only Sam that gets called on his behavior is why I'm get so frustrated with the way the show's been handling Dean's character this season.
Part of the reason, I believe, Sam's getting hooked is because of how little control he feels over his life. He couldn't save Dean, he can't help Dean deal with the aftermath of Hell, the angels don't like him, Ruby's pressuring him, an apocalypse is coming, and it sometimes feels like Dean's waiting for him to slip up. It

[vichan]

1. Dean is extremely codependent (both boys are, to an extent, but Dean is a bit worse), and he feels he needs Sam to depend on him - his whole life it's been like that. His lashing out at Sam is actually pretty damn typical of the codependent stereotype. He's not being cruel for the sake of 'twisting the knife.' He's being cruel because he seriously doesn't know how else to handle Sam not needing him anymore. Also, I kind of don't believe Sam's apology, and I don't see why Dean would, either

[stephie_nhbg]

I love you for writing this. And wholeheartedly agree. *nods* It would be extreme poetic justice for Dean to take off, and leave Sam flipping a shit. Alas, at the rate Sam's changing I doubt that he would freak out, but still pipe dreams and all that.

[khakigrrl]

Ah, but from the very beginning of the series, the boys have kept secrets

[vichan]

The secrets throughout their entire lives just cements Dean's codependency even more, though: that's another very typical stage to codependency.

In the earlier seasons, 99% of their lies were lies by omission - still a lie, but radically different than bald-face lying. This season, Dean lied to Sam to protect Sam (and himself, to a small extent), and Sam lied to Dean to protect Sam (because of being afraid of how Dean would react).

I do see what you're saying about the goals, but I really disagree with you about Dean's overall journey. Yes, I'm a Dean fan, but I also sympathize with him more than any other fictional character I have ever encountered. (Yes, this makes me biased. I admit it. It really is that codependency thing.) Truthfully, I'm not even asking Dean to start showing a real desire for a home, or his own business, or a wife. All we need is for him to care about himself, or at least acknowledge that he has a problem. If the show was never going to address this, why have Bobby, Sam, Castiel, Anna, and now Tessa all

[impulsiveanswer]

It bugs me that Dean's allowed to get away with doing and saying things that would get Sam raked over the coals if he did or said the same. I think a lot of my frustration with Dean comes from people letting this behavior slide more than the behavior itself - I would feel so much better if I knew he was going to be called on it.
It reminded me a lot of Mercutio cursing both the Montague's and Capulets.
Lovely, apt analogy!