You sound like meeeeee, lol. Actually, I agree with literally everything you just said. Every writer I've ever truly admired, save we'll say Harper Lee and a few poets, is male.
I occasionally watch videos by JennaMarbles and I spend most of it going 'well I'm a girl and I don't think or care about any of that stuff. You are an alien.' But I guess that's how most girls are. And it's weird. And tedious. And holds no appeal.
I need to figure out if there are any female writers I've read without being forced to. I mean I enjoyed The Color Purple...but that was for school. And I liked Black Beauty...when I was 8. And...um. What else?
Oh, yes, okay, amending myself, Alice Walker is a genius.
And I feel like there are a lot of talented, provocative female writers who do kid/YA lit--Lois Lowry jumps to mind.
Blargh re: Jenna Marbles and What Girls Care About (TM). I'd write a more coherent comment but I am so feverish and out of it it's a wonder I'm typing.
Yeah, her whole thing is...makeup! Partying! More makeup and partying and also...dogs or something! It's weird. And she's smart, clearly. But I guess I'm assuming she's sort of an example of what *average* females are like. And I...don't get it.
I read some kid's lit by women, I'm sure. But even then my faves were dudes. I did read Wrinkle In Time, but didn't care for it. Still, that's sci fi. So I dunno.
It's somewhat sad that in this day and age we still divide the books according to topics and assign them a gender. I understand your non-love for classic "female" book topics, I don't enjoy most of them as well, not because they are bad but because it's not my thing. Looking at the libraries of my family just shows me that the most "female" person of us is my father with his love for cookbooks... in comparison to our selections of serial killer stories (my mother), slaughter and horror stories (my sister) and polit-thrillers and conspirancy theories (me).
Another thing is that there are enough authors out there writing under a pseudonym. So it's not always clear if the author is the gender you expect them to be. Male romance writers for example tend to write under female pseudonyms, who knows how many female authors use a male one?
I wonder if there are women who'd like to write non-female lit but can't sell it? Or if publishers assume it won't sell? or are the women who want to write that stuff the same women who like genre fiction, so that's how it works out?
I tried to read the book 'Children of Men' was based on, which is written by a non-genre-fiction female. The book was okay, but I found it slow and plodding, and I only got about halfway. I'm not the only one who thought so, though. But she didn't have a genre writing style, and it probably would've helped the book a lot if she had.
I'm not sure where that falls in my read/didn't read continuum. I like the movie a lot.
I'd like to point out that P.D. James is, by your definition, a genre writer. She writes murder mysteries. Children of Men was near-future sci fi, and thus not her usual genre, but genre nonetheless. (For the record, I never made it past the second chapter.)
Ahh, okay, I thought she wrote...I dunno. I knew SF wasn't her usual area, but beyond that I don't remember much. It was too bad, too, I loved the movie and wanted to love the book too. :(
It seems peculiar to me to say all these things about women writers and then tack that disclaimer on the end, "Unless it's genre fiction." I mean, obviously women writing genre fiction are not any the less women for writing genre fiction? Why would their gender suddenly not count if they're writing about spaceships rather than family picnics?
I suspect that at least some of what you're getting at here is that you dislike the kinds of genres that are typically marketed to female readers. Publishers have a fairly clear idea of what sorts of books they think women want to read, and they not only to cater that idea but continually reinforce it. That doesn't make women uninterested in domestic lit less female, except perhaps for a few annoyed marketing specialists whose statistical models fail
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Also, now that I think about it, I think I'm confused by your definition of "genre." I assume you include mysteries, thrillers, SFF, historical fiction...? But I see chick list and family sagas as just two more genres. And if a person considers literary fiction a genre (I do), it's not obvious what's left after you've removed all the genre fiction.
Well I used to work in libraries, so I think of it as 'all genres' and 'general fiction.' In a categorization sense. Genres are mystery, romance, western, science fiction, fantasy, horror (and I might be forgetting some). Non-genre is anything that doesn't get a little sticker on the spine.
For one thing, MOST books (even genre books!) have as their focus love, relationships, family drama and interrelationships -- relationships between characters is basically what fiction is all about. All male authors write about these topics, too. And sorry, you've never read a family saga? What exactly is your definition of "family saga"? Supernatural, for example, is a family saga. As is To Kill a Mockingbird
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I actually enjoy the chance to have exactly this sort of discussion ;)honeylocusttreeOctober 7 2012, 01:03:52 UTC
Hah, well you know it's in my nature to have unpopular opinions. I'm always happy to share them because, well, mostly people don't do that sort of thing in order not to create controversy. But I make posts like this because they generate discussion, and they can be an opportunity to learn. I always get a broader perspective. So...on that note:
What exactly is your definition of "family saga"?That's like one of those stories about generations doing...whatever it is they do. Like it starts with a couple and then their kids and then their kids after that. A lot of them seem to be 'moved to America' stories. There are a lot of those, and frankly I don't get the appeal. I mean if they were generations of like, assassins or ninjas or something I might read it, but it tends to be more mundane stuff. People love that stuff (judging by how many are out there) and I just. Don't. Get it
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Re: I actually enjoy the chance to have exactly this sort of discussion ;)claudiapriscusOctober 7 2012, 02:29:32 UTC
Oh my goodness, I have more recommendations for you. Okay. so originally I was going to append this to my last comment, because I remembered Briar Rose by Jane Yolen that you might like, which isn't exactly magical realism, but is a story about a woman surviving the holocaust framed through the fairy tale she tells her grandchildren (and through which she made sense of what she experienced). But the comment about explosions and action/comedy has inspired me to push my current favorite author (for the sheer fun): Karen Chance, who writes books that are basically urban fantasy action comedies with a hefty dose of history fangirling. (I like history fangirling.)
Re: I actually enjoy the chance to have exactly this sort of discussion ;)honeylocusttreeOctober 7 2012, 02:43:15 UTC
I used to love Jane Yolen, though I haven't read her in years. But i respected the gravity of her writing. That could be interesting! (I was a big reader on all Holocaust and Hiroshima fiction when I was a kid.)
And everything is better with explosions. Everything.
Hmm, I think it depends on how we're defining genre. It's hard for me to come up with female authors who are non-genre (which in its broadest sense seems to just mean non-lit fic) because I as a rule am bored silly by literary fiction. But I can name a to of women authors I like in the sci-fi/fantasy/horror/speculative/mystery/thriller/historical/humor. Hell, I'll even admit to a few romance writers (well, they're kind of on the line, anyway
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Yeah, lit fic is a difficult proposition with me. It's gotta be *really* good. Most of them are just sorta okay. I've definitely read way more female sci fi authors.
the same book about a person dealing with a change in life and reflecting on where they've been and where they're going and the relationships with people around themi
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't read it either way. But you're probably right.
it's a disconnect between what culture tells women they should be and what I as a woman actually think and experienceHmm, that's interesting. I've always seen most women as this sort of great faceless mass of hair-clothes-makeup-omgboys!-screech and then later kids-SUV-boring-boring-uninteresting-gettingdrunkontheweekend-omg!manicures! But there have to be other types of women out there, right? They're just not being marketed to
( ... )
Some contemporary and classic female magic realists: Kelly Link, Karen Russell, Amy Bender, Mary Gaitskill, Louise Erdrich, Angela Carter, Toni Morrison, etc. There are tons more.
Kelly Link has all her stuff downloadable and free at her website.
Comments 62
You sound like meeeeee, lol. Actually, I agree with literally everything you just said. Every writer I've ever truly admired, save we'll say Harper Lee and a few poets, is male.
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I occasionally watch videos by JennaMarbles and I spend most of it going 'well I'm a girl and I don't think or care about any of that stuff. You are an alien.' But I guess that's how most girls are. And it's weird. And tedious. And holds no appeal.
I need to figure out if there are any female writers I've read without being forced to. I mean I enjoyed The Color Purple...but that was for school. And I liked Black Beauty...when I was 8. And...um. What else?
*flails*
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And I feel like there are a lot of talented, provocative female writers who do kid/YA lit--Lois Lowry jumps to mind.
Blargh re: Jenna Marbles and What Girls Care About (TM). I'd write a more coherent comment but I am so feverish and out of it it's a wonder I'm typing.
Reply
I read some kid's lit by women, I'm sure. But even then my faves were dudes. I did read Wrinkle In Time, but didn't care for it. Still, that's sci fi. So I dunno.
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I understand your non-love for classic "female" book topics, I don't enjoy most of them as well, not because they are bad but because it's not my thing.
Looking at the libraries of my family just shows me that the most "female" person of us is my father with his love for cookbooks... in comparison to our selections of serial killer stories (my mother), slaughter and horror stories (my sister) and polit-thrillers and conspirancy theories (me).
Another thing is that there are enough authors out there writing under a pseudonym. So it's not always clear if the author is the gender you expect them to be.
Male romance writers for example tend to write under female pseudonyms, who knows how many female authors use a male one?
Reply
I wonder if there are women who'd like to write non-female lit but can't sell it? Or if publishers assume it won't sell? or are the women who want to write that stuff the same women who like genre fiction, so that's how it works out?
I tried to read the book 'Children of Men' was based on, which is written by a non-genre-fiction female. The book was okay, but I found it slow and plodding, and I only got about halfway. I'm not the only one who thought so, though. But she didn't have a genre writing style, and it probably would've helped the book a lot if she had.
I'm not sure where that falls in my read/didn't read continuum. I like the movie a lot.
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I suspect that at least some of what you're getting at here is that you dislike the kinds of genres that are typically marketed to female readers. Publishers have a fairly clear idea of what sorts of books they think women want to read, and they not only to cater that idea but continually reinforce it. That doesn't make women uninterested in domestic lit less female, except perhaps for a few annoyed marketing specialists whose statistical models fail ( ... )
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For one thing, MOST books (even genre books!) have as their focus love, relationships, family drama and interrelationships -- relationships between characters is basically what fiction is all about. All male authors write about these topics, too. And sorry, you've never read a family saga? What exactly is your definition of "family saga"? Supernatural, for example, is a family saga. As is To Kill a Mockingbird ( ... )
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What exactly is your definition of "family saga"?That's like one of those stories about generations doing...whatever it is they do. Like it starts with a couple and then their kids and then their kids after that. A lot of them seem to be 'moved to America' stories. There are a lot of those, and frankly I don't get the appeal. I mean if they were generations of like, assassins or ninjas or something I might read it, but it tends to be more mundane stuff. People love that stuff (judging by how many are out there) and I just. Don't. Get it ( ... )
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And everything is better with explosions. Everything.
*notes Chance*
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the same book about a person dealing with a change in life and reflecting on where they've been and where they're going and the relationships with people around themi
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't read it either way. But you're probably right.
it's a disconnect between what culture tells women they should be and what I as a woman actually think and experienceHmm, that's interesting. I've always seen most women as this sort of great faceless mass of hair-clothes-makeup-omgboys!-screech and then later kids-SUV-boring-boring-uninteresting-gettingdrunkontheweekend-omg!manicures! But there have to be other types of women out there, right? They're just not being marketed to ( ... )
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Kelly Link has all her stuff downloadable and free at her website.
"Haunting Olivia" by Russell is available online here. http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/06/13/050613fi_fiction
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Free. Free is good. Yes.
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