We can also assume that Spike doesn't realize her Acts of Service signify love--he doesn't realize her being the Slayer is about her being "full of love"Absolutely. He's so wracked with guilt at this point that he'll try anything to rationalize away the love--because he just doesn't think he deserves it. So even if the acts are meaningful to him, and on some level read to him as love, he doesn't want to go down that path because he thinks it's impossible that she'd love him
( ... )
Buffy is constantly expressing her love through Acts of Service. That's why she's full of love. Also, I'd argue that her love through Acts of Service is very selfless because it's done for others and they might not even know it. There's no expectation of gratitude, not reward except knowing that your Act of Service has saved the lives of those you love.
I love this. The Slayer is full of love. Yes.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of service--and these acts are what Buffy feels are the true expression of herself and her love.
Yes. Exactly. And it really goes to show that Buffy is more becoming the Slayer as time goes by. It's hard for her to vocalize. She's the Hand.
So, it's like her love is rejected, and then she has to immediately try and open herself up using words right after that rejection. YES. That's why it hurts to read people
( ... )
By the end of season 7, they are each willing to come 100% of the way to the other person when they have to. It isn't always Spike coming over to Buffy or Buffy coming over to Spike--they both are willing to adjust the way they express love. And they are both willing to give everything. Not just to each other--but also to the world. Because Spike's final act is an act of not just contrition, but of love. Love for Buffy. And love for the world. So there they are, standing in that crumbling Hellmouth, making every possible expression of love for each other and for humanity.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
WHOA. I'm looking through transcripts and just realized that Cassie's poem is about Buffy:
They will be here, trees and sun and children with canes and pruney skin when I am but a memory a laugh in the trees of time. I sit alone and try to love them I sit alone, a snake I sit alone and try to love them I sit alone and laugh.
How Buffy's alone, knows she's going to die young, how she tries to be with her friends, but knowing that death is coming for her separates her from them. So she tries to love them, she tries so hard, but oncoming death feels like a constant grief and it silences her voice. So she tries to love them through Acts of Service. She tries to say it, but it continues getting harder after so much grief.
The "I sit alone and laugh" reminds me of Buffy laughing at death and danger. Because it's either laugh or sob.
YES. Totally. And the last 4 lines--the laughing is part of her trying to love them. Because it helps her keep from giving up on her expressions of love. She laughs at danger so she doesn't sink into despair. So she can carry on loving.
Also, you know how people love to point out how when Spike presses about their connection in "Touched", trying to define it, Buffy says, "Does it have to mean anything?"
And people *hate* that. Well guess what:
ANYA And here's where we hop on the merry-go-round of rotating knives. I blame you, and you
blame me, and we both end up all cut to shreds. Please just tell- Do you still love me?
XANDER (nods) Yes. I still love you. I always will. I just don't know if that means anything for
us anymore.
ANYA Well, I love you too. I don't know if that means anything either.
Love isn't something you define easily. Especially not when your relationship is so complex. Loving someone, always loving them, doesn't mean you're ready to be together necessarily.
Buffy asking "does it have to mean something?" isn't about rejecting him. It's about being happy simply to love and try to figure it out later. Insecurity demands you put labels on everything. And really, there isn't time to figure out what it means.
Yep. Good call--the Anya/Xander conversation shows that a label doesn't necessarily lead to a happily ever after. The label doesn't necessarily mean anything.
And actually, I was talking about Buffy's "Does it have to mean something?" with someone recently (maybe ohwaluvusbab?)--and I was saying how much I liked it. This is me overidentifying with Buffy, as usual, but I don't know what she was supposed to say there. For God's sake, she didn't KNOW what it meant. I mean, yes, she knew it meant something. And yes, she probably knew it meant that their hands would burst into flames when clasped lovingly. But cut the chick some slack, people. Saying those words is the hardest thing in the world for her.
Eventually I'm gonna end up making a "LEAVE BUFFY ALLLOONNNEEE!" video of me sobbing in front of my web cam, talking about how poor Buffy's been through so much why are you persecuting her just because she bears the scars from all that trauma. It will be epic.
I'm pretty sure there're a couple of comments I left in Lauren's "How Buffy Expresses Love" post from a month or two ago that would mesh nicely with that there epic comment you just wrote.
Yes, yes it was me. Or I bet it was me. Because I am the only other person in fandom who apparently admits shit like that. SEE THIS IS WHY WE ARE BROS. And Emmie is on the money as usual also - that is exactly how I always interpreted "Does it have to mean something?" What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
Also I've been reading this entire conversation and nodding along to everything you've been saying, BUT TOO MANY THINGS I AGREE WITH, so I'm just gonna respond to them in this comment rather than the actual corresponding ones.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of serviceYES. YES. YOU ARE SAYING ALL MY FEELINGS
( ... )
What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
THANK YOU. I mean, I get that it's not the *perfect* thing to say--but jeesh. I don't understand why people want something from her that isn't her, ya know? To me, that would've cheapened it. All of it. If the writers had had her pledge her life and love to him right then and there, it would've cheapened the last 3 seasons of growing toward something together--and the struggle and pain that the growth caused. And it would've cheapened the night before. And it would've cheapened what was to come. Go real or go home, that's my motto.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love.See. I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was
( ... )
Yesssss. And good God do I hate mutual declarations of ~*true love*~. Get your cheap declarations off my show.
I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love.
Yes, I got why she'd say as much too. But stepping outside her pov for a sec - whyyyyy? That's something I'd expect S5 Angel, or S3 Faith, to say. Maybe I just equate 'losing ability to love' with moral depravity. Or at least, calculated attempts to alienate oneself from others. Buffy simply hadn't done anything wrong. So I thought she was being way too harsh on herself.
to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love
Well, being the Slayer does entail causing a lot of death. Death of malevolent beings, but still. I totally get how that would darken a person's sooooul.
It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's
( ... )
But Buffy does tell people that she loves them. It isn't across-the-board impossible for her to vocalize her love. There are people she says the words to. She only noticeably avoided them with Riley and with Spike.
But it is across-the-board difficult for her to tell people she loves them even in a platonic sense (as shown in "Intervention") and it becomes near impossible for her to do it in a romantic sense because loving someone romantically and expressing it through words is ridiculously hard after Angel.
But doesn't she tell Dawn she loves her in The Gift? (It's been ages so I don't remember but in my head it seems the case). And she's expressing her affection for the Scoobs in AfterLife in the group hug. She has problems with the truth to them -- because of her affection for them -- but she expresses affection for them.
I just never had a strong impression that she had a problem giving the words to Scoobs, her mother, her sister, etc. Even when she's distant from them, even when she seems disconnected, even when she's not close, I don't really remember it being an issue of her being unable to express her feelings of affection to them in words... even when her actions are somewhat more difficult to interpret and even when she has grown distant from them in a very real sense. Her saying the words didn't really ever strike me as an issue with them (or with Angel
( ... )
Reply
Buffy is constantly expressing her love through Acts of Service. That's why she's full of love. Also, I'd argue that her love through Acts of Service is very selfless because it's done for others and they might not even know it. There's no expectation of gratitude, not reward except knowing that your Act of Service has saved the lives of those you love.
I love this. The Slayer is full of love. Yes.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of service--and these acts are what Buffy feels are the true expression of herself and her love.
Yes. Exactly. And it really goes to show that Buffy is more becoming the Slayer as time goes by. It's hard for her to vocalize. She's the Hand.
So, it's like her love is rejected, and then she has to immediately try and open herself up using words right after that rejection. YES. That's why it hurts to read people ( ... )
Reply
Reply
By the end of season 7, they are each willing to come 100% of the way to the other person when they have to. It isn't always Spike coming over to Buffy or Buffy coming over to Spike--they both are willing to adjust the way they express love. And they are both willing to give everything. Not just to each other--but also to the world. Because Spike's final act is an act of not just contrition, but of love. Love for Buffy. And love for the world. So there they are, standing in that crumbling Hellmouth, making every possible expression of love for each other and for humanity.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
Reply
They will be here, trees and sun
and children with canes
and pruney skin
when I am but a memory
a laugh in the trees
of time. I sit alone
and try to love them
I sit alone, a snake
I sit alone and try to
love them
I sit alone
and laugh.
How Buffy's alone, knows she's going to die young, how she tries to be with her friends, but knowing that death is coming for her separates her from them. So she tries to love them, she tries so hard, but oncoming death feels like a constant grief and it silences her voice. So she tries to love them through Acts of Service. She tries to say it, but it continues getting harder after so much grief.
The "I sit alone and laugh" reminds me of Buffy laughing at death and danger. Because it's either laugh or sob.
Reply
Reply
And people *hate* that. Well guess what:
ANYA
And here's where we hop on the merry-go-round of rotating knives. I blame you, and you
blame me, and we both end up all cut to shreds. Please just tell- Do you still love me?
XANDER
(nods) Yes. I still love you. I always will. I just don't know if that means anything for
us anymore.
ANYA
Well, I love you too. I don't know if that means anything either.
Love isn't something you define easily. Especially not when your relationship is so complex. Loving someone, always loving them, doesn't mean you're ready to be together necessarily.
Buffy asking "does it have to mean something?" isn't about rejecting him. It's about being happy simply to love and try to figure it out later. Insecurity demands you put labels on everything. And really, there isn't time to figure out what it means.
Reply
And actually, I was talking about Buffy's "Does it have to mean something?" with someone recently (maybe ohwaluvusbab?)--and I was saying how much I liked it. This is me overidentifying with Buffy, as usual, but I don't know what she was supposed to say there. For God's sake, she didn't KNOW what it meant. I mean, yes, she knew it meant something. And yes, she probably knew it meant that their hands would burst into flames when clasped lovingly. But cut the chick some slack, people. Saying those words is the hardest thing in the world for her.
Eventually I'm gonna end up making a "LEAVE BUFFY ALLLOONNNEEE!" video of me sobbing in front of my web cam, talking about how poor Buffy's been through so much why are you persecuting her just because she bears the scars from all that trauma. It will be epic.
Reply
LEAAAAAAAAAAVE BUFFY ALOOOOOOONE!1!!!
Dude, we should write meta about Buffy entitled "Leave Buffy Alone!" Haha, I think I just got started here.
Reply
I'm pretty sure there're a couple of comments I left in Lauren's "How Buffy Expresses Love" post from a month or two ago that would mesh nicely with that there epic comment you just wrote.
Reply
Yes, yes it was me. Or I bet it was me. Because I am the only other person in fandom who apparently admits shit like that. SEE THIS IS WHY WE ARE BROS. And Emmie is on the money as usual also - that is exactly how I always interpreted "Does it have to mean something?" What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
Also I've been reading this entire conversation and nodding along to everything you've been saying, BUT TOO MANY THINGS I AGREE WITH, so I'm just gonna respond to them in this comment rather than the actual corresponding ones.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of serviceYES. YES. YOU ARE SAYING ALL MY FEELINGS ( ... )
Reply
THANK YOU. I mean, I get that it's not the *perfect* thing to say--but jeesh. I don't understand why people want something from her that isn't her, ya know? To me, that would've cheapened it. All of it. If the writers had had her pledge her life and love to him right then and there, it would've cheapened the last 3 seasons of growing toward something together--and the struggle and pain that the growth caused. And it would've cheapened the night before. And it would've cheapened what was to come. Go real or go home, that's my motto.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love.See. I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was ( ... )
Reply
Yesssss. And good God do I hate mutual declarations of ~*true love*~. Get your cheap declarations off my show.
I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love.
Yes, I got why she'd say as much too. But stepping outside her pov for a sec - whyyyyy? That's something I'd expect S5 Angel, or S3 Faith, to say. Maybe I just equate 'losing ability to love' with moral depravity. Or at least, calculated attempts to alienate oneself from others. Buffy simply hadn't done anything wrong. So I thought she was being way too harsh on herself.
to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love
Well, being the Slayer does entail causing a lot of death. Death of malevolent beings, but still. I totally get how that would darken a person's sooooul.
It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
I just never had a strong impression that she had a problem giving the words to Scoobs, her mother, her sister, etc. Even when she's distant from them, even when she seems disconnected, even when she's not close, I don't really remember it being an issue of her being unable to express her feelings of affection to them in words... even when her actions are somewhat more difficult to interpret and even when she has grown distant from them in a very real sense. Her saying the words didn't really ever strike me as an issue with them (or with Angel ( ... )
Reply
Leave a comment