Yes. She's the Hand! And she's the Slayer! And she's Buffy! And none of these things mean that she is hard or incapable of love!
I just.... I am having too many thoughts simultaneously. So I'm going to make a list.
1) I think I had a roadblock on this--I was sort of thinking of Buffy as 2 parts--Buffy and Slayer--just as she does in Intervention. But I never had any problem with her expressing her love through actions. But for some reason, it never clicked for me that that meant that SO MANY of her actions were an expression of love. I was looking small picture--expressing love for individuals made sense to me, no problem. But I wasn't getting my head around Buffy loving the universe via her slayer duties.
2) OK. Bear with me, this is an unformed thought. So. This post for some reason puts a whole new spin on Chosen for me. Because, like you said and Gabs illustrated, it's like Buffy's using EVERY POSSIBLE language to express love. She's the freaking Rosetta Stone of love. It all must pass through her! But, like we were saying above, it hurts Buffy to vocalize love. It physically hurts. Because she's acknowledging that her normal way of loving is not enough. But there, in Chosen, she has done everything to tell Spike that she loves him: time (choosing to spend the last night of your life with someone is pretty effing significant, yo), acts, gifts, touch (that bursts into FLAMES, mofos! FLAMES.), and she finally lets go of the words. And I think some symmetry there. She gives Spike the words because he gave her the acts. He got his soul for her. He beat up Faith for her. He refused to abandon her.
Now, I think Spike is maybe a little bit of a natural love linguist (heh. There's a cunning linguist joke in here somewhere.)--because I don't think that it was as difficult for him to move from what maybe, as a poet, is his first language--words--to acts. But still.
And it's interesting, now that I think about it, this emphasis on the movement between words and actions calls up season 6--where they move from words (Spike being her confidant), to actions (fighting and sex), to words ("I'm sorry, William"), back to actions (AR, fighting, soulquest).
I don't know where I'm going with this. But just thought I'd say it aloud.
That's why it hurts to read people judging her for not saying it. People are telling her her love isn't good enough. This is her love language. People need to get over the words and understand how Buffy expresses herself.
By the end of season 7, they are each willing to come 100% of the way to the other person when they have to. It isn't always Spike coming over to Buffy or Buffy coming over to Spike--they both are willing to adjust the way they express love. And they are both willing to give everything. Not just to each other--but also to the world. Because Spike's final act is an act of not just contrition, but of love. Love for Buffy. And love for the world. So there they are, standing in that crumbling Hellmouth, making every possible expression of love for each other and for humanity.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
WHOA. I'm looking through transcripts and just realized that Cassie's poem is about Buffy:
They will be here, trees and sun and children with canes and pruney skin when I am but a memory a laugh in the trees of time. I sit alone and try to love them I sit alone, a snake I sit alone and try to love them I sit alone and laugh.
How Buffy's alone, knows she's going to die young, how she tries to be with her friends, but knowing that death is coming for her separates her from them. So she tries to love them, she tries so hard, but oncoming death feels like a constant grief and it silences her voice. So she tries to love them through Acts of Service. She tries to say it, but it continues getting harder after so much grief.
The "I sit alone and laugh" reminds me of Buffy laughing at death and danger. Because it's either laugh or sob.
YES. Totally. And the last 4 lines--the laughing is part of her trying to love them. Because it helps her keep from giving up on her expressions of love. She laughs at danger so she doesn't sink into despair. So she can carry on loving.
Also, you know how people love to point out how when Spike presses about their connection in "Touched", trying to define it, Buffy says, "Does it have to mean anything?"
And people *hate* that. Well guess what:
ANYA And here's where we hop on the merry-go-round of rotating knives. I blame you, and you
blame me, and we both end up all cut to shreds. Please just tell- Do you still love me?
XANDER (nods) Yes. I still love you. I always will. I just don't know if that means anything for
us anymore.
ANYA Well, I love you too. I don't know if that means anything either.
Love isn't something you define easily. Especially not when your relationship is so complex. Loving someone, always loving them, doesn't mean you're ready to be together necessarily.
Buffy asking "does it have to mean something?" isn't about rejecting him. It's about being happy simply to love and try to figure it out later. Insecurity demands you put labels on everything. And really, there isn't time to figure out what it means.
Yep. Good call--the Anya/Xander conversation shows that a label doesn't necessarily lead to a happily ever after. The label doesn't necessarily mean anything.
And actually, I was talking about Buffy's "Does it have to mean something?" with someone recently (maybe ohwaluvusbab?)--and I was saying how much I liked it. This is me overidentifying with Buffy, as usual, but I don't know what she was supposed to say there. For God's sake, she didn't KNOW what it meant. I mean, yes, she knew it meant something. And yes, she probably knew it meant that their hands would burst into flames when clasped lovingly. But cut the chick some slack, people. Saying those words is the hardest thing in the world for her.
Eventually I'm gonna end up making a "LEAVE BUFFY ALLLOONNNEEE!" video of me sobbing in front of my web cam, talking about how poor Buffy's been through so much why are you persecuting her just because she bears the scars from all that trauma. It will be epic.
I'm pretty sure there're a couple of comments I left in Lauren's "How Buffy Expresses Love" post from a month or two ago that would mesh nicely with that there epic comment you just wrote.
Yes, yes it was me. Or I bet it was me. Because I am the only other person in fandom who apparently admits shit like that. SEE THIS IS WHY WE ARE BROS. And Emmie is on the money as usual also - that is exactly how I always interpreted "Does it have to mean something?" What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
Also I've been reading this entire conversation and nodding along to everything you've been saying, BUT TOO MANY THINGS I AGREE WITH, so I'm just gonna respond to them in this comment rather than the actual corresponding ones.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of service
YES. YES. YOU ARE SAYING ALL MY FEELINGS.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love. What the what now? Some people abandon her unfairly, and she blames herself. Tragedy.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
Preach, girl. Well, no, I understand the former, because I know that some people just don't feel it. Which is entirely subjective and hey, can't blame 'em. But the "incapable of love" part. BAH. HOLD ME BACK.
Anyway yeah I'm gonna go read all your other comments. Expect more VIOLENT AGREEMENT.
What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
THANK YOU. I mean, I get that it's not the *perfect* thing to say--but jeesh. I don't understand why people want something from her that isn't her, ya know? To me, that would've cheapened it. All of it. If the writers had had her pledge her life and love to him right then and there, it would've cheapened the last 3 seasons of growing toward something together--and the struggle and pain that the growth caused. And it would've cheapened the night before. And it would've cheapened what was to come. Go real or go home, that's my motto.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love.
See. I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love. My problem was that because I so clearly saw her POV, I wasn't seeing that all the slayer stuff WAS love. I was looking at it, like she does, as if it's something to be overcome--to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love (which is now my official stance).
Yeah, I guess I can tolerate people who don't think she loved him--but not the "incapable of love" people. It just makes me want to sob, thinking that people believe someone so completely loving as Buffy is incapable love. It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's never enough.
Yesssss. And good God do I hate mutual declarations of ~*true love*~. Get your cheap declarations off my show.
I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love.
Yes, I got why she'd say as much too. But stepping outside her pov for a sec - whyyyyy? That's something I'd expect S5 Angel, or S3 Faith, to say. Maybe I just equate 'losing ability to love' with moral depravity. Or at least, calculated attempts to alienate oneself from others. Buffy simply hadn't done anything wrong. So I thought she was being way too harsh on herself.
to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love
Well, being the Slayer does entail causing a lot of death. Death of malevolent beings, but still. I totally get how that would darken a person's sooooul.
It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's never enough.
I just.... I am having too many thoughts simultaneously. So I'm going to make a list.
1) I think I had a roadblock on this--I was sort of thinking of Buffy as 2 parts--Buffy and Slayer--just as she does in Intervention. But I never had any problem with her expressing her love through actions. But for some reason, it never clicked for me that that meant that SO MANY of her actions were an expression of love. I was looking small picture--expressing love for individuals made sense to me, no problem. But I wasn't getting my head around Buffy loving the universe via her slayer duties.
2) OK. Bear with me, this is an unformed thought. So. This post for some reason puts a whole new spin on Chosen for me. Because, like you said and Gabs illustrated, it's like Buffy's using EVERY POSSIBLE language to express love. She's the freaking Rosetta Stone of love. It all must pass through her! But, like we were saying above, it hurts Buffy to vocalize love. It physically hurts. Because she's acknowledging that her normal way of loving is not enough. But there, in Chosen, she has done everything to tell Spike that she loves him: time (choosing to spend the last night of your life with someone is pretty effing significant, yo), acts, gifts, touch (that bursts into FLAMES, mofos! FLAMES.), and she finally lets go of the words. And I think some symmetry there. She gives Spike the words because he gave her the acts. He got his soul for her. He beat up Faith for her. He refused to abandon her.
Now, I think Spike is maybe a little bit of a natural love linguist (heh. There's a cunning linguist joke in here somewhere.)--because I don't think that it was as difficult for him to move from what maybe, as a poet, is his first language--words--to acts. But still.
And it's interesting, now that I think about it, this emphasis on the movement between words and actions calls up season 6--where they move from words (Spike being her confidant), to actions (fighting and sex), to words ("I'm sorry, William"), back to actions (AR, fighting, soulquest).
I don't know where I'm going with this. But just thought I'd say it aloud.
That's why it hurts to read people judging her for not saying it. People are telling her her love isn't good enough. This is her love language. People need to get over the words and understand how Buffy expresses herself.
Word up.
Reply
By the end of season 7, they are each willing to come 100% of the way to the other person when they have to. It isn't always Spike coming over to Buffy or Buffy coming over to Spike--they both are willing to adjust the way they express love. And they are both willing to give everything. Not just to each other--but also to the world. Because Spike's final act is an act of not just contrition, but of love. Love for Buffy. And love for the world. So there they are, standing in that crumbling Hellmouth, making every possible expression of love for each other and for humanity.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
Reply
They will be here, trees and sun
and children with canes
and pruney skin
when I am but a memory
a laugh in the trees
of time. I sit alone
and try to love them
I sit alone, a snake
I sit alone and try to
love them
I sit alone
and laugh.
How Buffy's alone, knows she's going to die young, how she tries to be with her friends, but knowing that death is coming for her separates her from them. So she tries to love them, she tries so hard, but oncoming death feels like a constant grief and it silences her voice. So she tries to love them through Acts of Service. She tries to say it, but it continues getting harder after so much grief.
The "I sit alone and laugh" reminds me of Buffy laughing at death and danger. Because it's either laugh or sob.
Reply
Reply
And people *hate* that. Well guess what:
ANYA
And here's where we hop on the merry-go-round of rotating knives. I blame you, and you
blame me, and we both end up all cut to shreds. Please just tell- Do you still love me?
XANDER
(nods) Yes. I still love you. I always will. I just don't know if that means anything for
us anymore.
ANYA
Well, I love you too. I don't know if that means anything either.
Love isn't something you define easily. Especially not when your relationship is so complex. Loving someone, always loving them, doesn't mean you're ready to be together necessarily.
Buffy asking "does it have to mean something?" isn't about rejecting him. It's about being happy simply to love and try to figure it out later. Insecurity demands you put labels on everything. And really, there isn't time to figure out what it means.
Reply
And actually, I was talking about Buffy's "Does it have to mean something?" with someone recently (maybe ohwaluvusbab?)--and I was saying how much I liked it. This is me overidentifying with Buffy, as usual, but I don't know what she was supposed to say there. For God's sake, she didn't KNOW what it meant. I mean, yes, she knew it meant something. And yes, she probably knew it meant that their hands would burst into flames when clasped lovingly. But cut the chick some slack, people. Saying those words is the hardest thing in the world for her.
Eventually I'm gonna end up making a "LEAVE BUFFY ALLLOONNNEEE!" video of me sobbing in front of my web cam, talking about how poor Buffy's been through so much why are you persecuting her just because she bears the scars from all that trauma. It will be epic.
Reply
LEAAAAAAAAAAVE BUFFY ALOOOOOOONE!1!!!
Dude, we should write meta about Buffy entitled "Leave Buffy Alone!" Haha, I think I just got started here.
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I'm pretty sure there're a couple of comments I left in Lauren's "How Buffy Expresses Love" post from a month or two ago that would mesh nicely with that there epic comment you just wrote.
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Yes, yes it was me. Or I bet it was me. Because I am the only other person in fandom who apparently admits shit like that. SEE THIS IS WHY WE ARE BROS. And Emmie is on the money as usual also - that is exactly how I always interpreted "Does it have to mean something?" What the fuck is one supposed to say there? Well, okay, I'm sure other peeps who don't suck at relationships can jump in here and tell me exactly what, but I don't care. I'm with Buffy.
Also I've been reading this entire conversation and nodding along to everything you've been saying, BUT TOO MANY THINGS I AGREE WITH, so I'm just gonna respond to them in this comment rather than the actual corresponding ones.
And maybe, it's so hard for her vocalize her feelings because she's so constantly expressing her love in these other ways. To be forced to vocalize it feels almost like a rejection of all these acts of service
YES. YES. YOU ARE SAYING ALL MY FEELINGS.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love. What the what now? Some people abandon her unfairly, and she blames herself. Tragedy.
And now I officially can't even come close to tolerating people who tell me that she didn't love him, or she was incapable of love.
Preach, girl. Well, no, I understand the former, because I know that some people just don't feel it. Which is entirely subjective and hey, can't blame 'em. But the "incapable of love" part. BAH. HOLD ME BACK.
Anyway yeah I'm gonna go read all your other comments. Expect more VIOLENT AGREEMENT.
Reply
THANK YOU. I mean, I get that it's not the *perfect* thing to say--but jeesh. I don't understand why people want something from her that isn't her, ya know? To me, that would've cheapened it. All of it. If the writers had had her pledge her life and love to him right then and there, it would've cheapened the last 3 seasons of growing toward something together--and the struggle and pain that the growth caused. And it would've cheapened the night before. And it would've cheapened what was to come. Go real or go home, that's my motto.
You also mentioned 'Intervention' in one of these numerous comments, which leads me to remember my completely baffled initial reaction at Buffy saying that she thought she was losing her ability to love.
See. I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love. My problem was that because I so clearly saw her POV, I wasn't seeing that all the slayer stuff WAS love. I was looking at it, like she does, as if it's something to be overcome--to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love (which is now my official stance).
Yeah, I guess I can tolerate people who don't think she loved him--but not the "incapable of love" people. It just makes me want to sob, thinking that people believe someone so completely loving as Buffy is incapable love. It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's never enough.
Reply
Yesssss. And good God do I hate mutual declarations of ~*true love*~. Get your cheap declarations off my show.
I understood where she was coming from there--I knew she was WRONG--but I got why she thought she was losing her ability to love.
Yes, I got why she'd say as much too. But stepping outside her pov for a sec - whyyyyy? That's something I'd expect S5 Angel, or S3 Faith, to say. Maybe I just equate 'losing ability to love' with moral depravity. Or at least, calculated attempts to alienate oneself from others. Buffy simply hadn't done anything wrong. So I thought she was being way too harsh on herself.
to remain human and loving in spite of being the slayer--not being the slayer as a form of love
Well, being the Slayer does entail causing a lot of death. Death of malevolent beings, but still. I totally get how that would darken a person's sooooul.
It makes me sad because it's like she's right. No matter what she does--no matter how many love languages she learns and uses--it's never enough.
:( :( :(
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