the morality of fat

[atwistedstring]

I'm finding myself to be very inarticulate today, so I'm hoping that this really small and inadequate post will start a better discussion. I feel like I really need to say this:

I don't actually have to be healthy.

I'm sure a fair number of the members of fatshionista would agree that fat stigma is bad. I hope that most of us would, anyway. I bet an equally

Comments

[onceupon]

Health (just like fatness) is not a moral issue. I really appreciate you bringing this up in the community. There is no such thing as a Good Fat Person or a Bad Fat Person - not unless we buy into the idea that health is inherently virtuous for everyone.

My own health is beside the point. Fat Acceptance is for EVERYONE regardless of health.

[etana]

Exactly. The fact that I can't talk about fat acceptance w/o having that ridiculous discussion about extreme size or extreme weight and perceptions of health is absurd. I'm not asking you to make a judgment call on whether or not someone is going to drop dead. I'm asking that you respect folks regardless of their size, that you make space for them like you would for any other minority group. I'm tired of it being okay to dismiss fat folks because they 'did it to themselves' or 'they could fix it' just as easily or some bullshit like that.
It's like dismissing the disabled because 'they were just born hopeless' or 'they'll never amount to anything anyway' or 'they need a PCA' etc. etc. ad nauseum.

[ruby_woo]

This isn't a place to discuss dieting and weight loss in a postive light, or it isn't a place to discuss dieting and weight loss period?

[theoryofgravity]

Value-free mentions of sizing changes are fine (“My favorite jeans don’t fit anymore, I need new ones in an 18, any suggestions?”) whereas self-congratulatory expressions of weight loss are not (“I’ve lost fifty pounds and now I can wear skirts and everyone keeps giving me compliments and it’s awesome!”).

I think if it had occurred to us that the post that originally triggered this conversation would shift into a discussion running in circles about "does dieting work", we never would have approved it.

[kristen729]

I am so grateful that you posted this entry. I feel as though I am expected to constantly prove to people that I'm somehow a better fatass than others because I try to eat nutritionally dense food. It's a constant sense of feeling that I have to be totally transparent to complete strangers about my eating and exercise habits. And it's hard

[astragali]

The best answer to "oh I'm fat but I'm not..." was when I was lamenting the fact that my former in-laws were giving me a hard time about my weight. A cousin said "You're fat, but you're not fucked in the head like them." Which was true!

[kristen729]

Lol! I'll have to write that one down. I like your cousin already.

[ehlasandra]

Sure it's great for people to try to be healthy. But it's also your personal right to decide to eat cheeseburgers 24/7 or to eat 3-4 balanced meals a day or something in between.

For me, I'm tired of hearing from some people that I should diet and exercise more. This usually comes after hearing that I'm OMG a size 12 - 16. As in, they have to be told my size. The general public seems to think I look fine until they know my weight or dress size.

Even weirder, I also hear "Oh so you're a vegetarian. You must be so healthy!" Which *ISN'T* true. Tons of unhealthy food is vegetarian and I eat what I like (a lot of it's good for me but definitely not all of it).

It's like people can't wrap their minds around the fact that numbers (and labels like vegetarian) don't always mean certain things. I was pretty before they knew my dress size. And I was healthy before they knew exactly what I ate.

[atwistedstring]

Isn't it so bizarre how numbers skew peoples attitudes so much? This really speaks to how ambiguous questions of health are. I've seen so many conversations among "normal" weight people where they throw numbers like "200 lbs" around with shock and disgust. And that's how much I weigh, at a size 14/16. I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance that would occur and make their heads explode (wishful thinking) if I revealed that I am what 200 lbs looks like.

[kristen729]

This reminds me of Fat Rant. She makes mention of "200 lbs!!!1!! like it's breathtaking."

I also think this may have something to do with why I don't weigh myself. I know my size, because hey, I'm still a clothes horse, but weighing myself has always been so tricky for me. I refuse to weigh based on the notion that the number isn't important. But I think, in reality, I'm afraid of the number to some extent, because there would be some kind of arbitrary idea in my mind about what that number means. But, to reiterate your original point, the number doesn't actually mean anything. I just don't want to put myself into a position where I judge myself for an arbitrary number, because that might mean that other people could. Confusing! It is bizarre, like you said.

[atwistedstring]

I hate that sometimes I still can't escape the need to put a number on my body; I didn't weigh myself for the longest time (and managed to avoid it at the doctors office). I still had a number in mind for my body, but never went to the scale to confirm or deny it. I don't know what compelled me, but I went and weighed myself the other day and discovered that I had actually lost a fair amount (about 20 lbs), through no real concentrated lifestyle changes (I think it's just from walking around a bit more). I cannot tell you how much this fucked with my head. Ugh.

I dunno if that story had a point, but yeah, numbers.

[thymeenough]

We're a diverse group. We've got people struggling with eating disorders, we've got people who've undergone WLS, we've got fat and feminism activists, we've got kids and grandparents getting their first introduction to the idea that fat isn't a moral failing.

We're directly connected to the fat 101 and feminism 101 newbie feeds. A lot of people get their first exposure to ideas like HAES and the ugly sides of the diet industry here. If you've been here awhile, you'll have seen the constant uphill battle over gender-identity phrases.

Reminding people about the idea of dignity at any size won't hurt us.

[atwistedstring]

Oh, yep, I've been here long enough to have seen and take part in the gender identity phrase battles, and I actually originally wrote something at the beginning of this post acknowledging that as the community grows, we will all have to go through a cycle of re-education and exposure to these ideas. I'm not sure why I ended up deleting it. :P

[azryal]

Reminding people about the idea of dignity at any size won't hurt us.

Brilliant statement.