the morality of fat

[atwistedstring]

I'm finding myself to be very inarticulate today, so I'm hoping that this really small and inadequate post will start a better discussion. I feel like I really need to say this:

I don't actually have to be healthy.

I'm sure a fair number of the members of fatshionista would agree that fat stigma is bad. I hope that most of us would, anyway. I bet an equally

Comments

[kristen729]

I am so grateful that you posted this entry. I feel as though I am expected to constantly prove to people that I'm somehow a better fatass than others because I try to eat nutritionally dense food. It's a constant sense of feeling that I have to be totally transparent to complete strangers about my eating and exercise habits. And it's hard.

I find that it also pits fattie against fattie, in a way. There's a girl I know who I have a hard time spending time with, mostly because she is what the mainstream would think of as a stereotypical fat person. She doesn't exercise at all. She eats large amounts of food that the mainstream would normally think of as "unhealthy." I watched her pick her fruit off of a fruit tart and felt grossed out. And I realized that this has nothing to do with her. She has just as much of a right to be fat comfortably as I do. I was completely projecting my own learned stereotypes about what constitutes good fat and bad fat, and it was totally hypocritical of me. I'm obviously still "unlearning" these notions that are so deeply ingrained.

I also agree with the above poster about the idea that we've replaced "moral" with "healthy." I totally agree, and I am curious as to how other folks in this community feel about that conflation.

Thanks again!

[astragali]

The best answer to "oh I'm fat but I'm not..." was when I was lamenting the fact that my former in-laws were giving me a hard time about my weight. A cousin said "You're fat, but you're not fucked in the head like them." Which was true!

[kristen729]

Lol! I'll have to write that one down. I like your cousin already.

[radiosilents]

I have had that experience, too, and find myself struggling against that brand of sizeism (in mind only, not that that makes it much better) toward other fat people more often than I would expect myself to as a 350-pound woman.

I am glad this discussion is taking place!

[atwistedstring]

It really does have that Divide and Conquer effect (I also see this happening when conversations like "How much fat is unsexy?" occur).

I'm obviously still "unlearning" these notions that are so deeply ingrained.

Me too, me too. It's really tough to break down all the little messages we've been taking for granted for so long!

[leg_0f_lamb]

i guess you and i would never be friends. i, too, don't exercise and i love to eat til i'm stuffed. and i wouldn't touch a fruit tart if it saved my life.

[kristen729]

I'm sorry. I hope I didn't offend you, though I realized I might offend some when I posted that comment. The point for me is, that I know that this is fucked up, and that eating habits certainly don't stop someone from being a good person, or a bad person, either way. And, to be clear, we are friends. I just project my own feelings onto her eating habits, which is something I'm aware of and make steps to understand and shut down.

[artemis44]

I'm curious - would you feel the same way about someone skinny who eats like her and doesn't exercise?

I think it's important to remember that some people (perhaps few, but some) do place a high value on "health" and what they consider healthy behaviors without equating that to a fat/skinny dichotomy. So someone could react the same way to a non-exercising, fruit-picking-off thin person as much as a non-exercising, fruit-picking-off fat person. Might not make it right, and might still have serious ableism issues, but not necessarily the same as anti-fat...

And also, for some people healthy habits *are* a moral issue, in that their religion (or their interpretation of their religion) places a high value on eating "right", on treating their body a certain way, etc. So to say that fat is not a moral issue is in some ways dismissive of countless people's moral and religious beliefs. (I'm NOT saying that you said this, Kristen, just putting my thoughts on various posts into this reply...)

Anyways, those are just some thoughts that came up while reading these posts... though I have to say I basically agree with the OP and with most of what y'all are saying... not that I live it all that well, but yeah, I do agree...

[kristen729]

I actually find that I come across many more thin people who fall into that "non-exercising, fruit-picking-off" category. And I do have a similar reaction, but the main feeling that I get when I see said theoretical skinny person engaging in those behaviors is a sense of anger - this could be totally untrue of that person, but in that moment I feel that they have the privilege of eating those foods without having to undergo the intense scrutiny that fat folks deal with when it comes to their eating habits. They may concede that they "should eat healthier" (there's that "should" word again), but they probably don't have people assuming left and right that they're unhealthy.

I know I've made some vast generalizations in this statement, so I apologize for that. Obviously, I know consciously that thin people ARE scrutinized for what they eat.

Regarding your point about religion, I hadn't even factored it into my train of thought. That is certainly a point worth mentioning, given that the moral codes that serve as the basis for many judicial systems across the world are based on religious moral codes, whether that country is secular or not. I believe that modern day, what I consider neo-conservative, notions that demand that everything is in our control and there fore we should make no excuses (examples: most self-help media I have heard of, including, most recently, The Secret) stem from the US's history of Puritanical work ethic. These notions of "you have total and complete control over your life" are empowering to some, but I find that they are mostly shaming and guilt-inducing. This type of thinking is particularly useful for fat-haters, as it gives them permission, in essence to dislike fat folks based solely on the notion that they are fat, because they have the power to change it, and they don't, so clearly, they are bad people and we shouldn't continue to encourage them by being nice to them. So that's my religion/morality/neo-con/fat-hating linkage. Sorry if it's convoluted.

Also, sorry for the novel.

[bellegabrielle]

very, very well said. I catch myself in things like this, too - it's a lot like the experience of learning about internalized racism, for instance. Good for you for noticing those thoughts and questioning them!