DW 8.07. Kill the Moon/Clara Who?

[elisi]

[This started out as a long rant at fandom, but I cut it down to the bare bones. Feel free to skip.] Note: If you want a story where all the babiez are brutally KILLED and everything is about the Doctor’s man!pain, go watch The Runaway Bride. Imma gonna watch the episode with all the awesome wimmins in charge. (No disrespect to RTD or Donna. Love them both.)With that out of the way - welcome to the meta cafe! :) This is long and rambly, you have

Comments

[enevarim]

Liked this very much. Not least “And don't forget to flap like your life depends on it.” And the callback to the Doctor's outburst in The Beast Below further helped me to follow / make sense of Clara's outburst at the end of the episode.

I still don't understand how the apparent / possible Time-Head-ness fits in with Emma's remark in Hide that she's “a perfectly ordinary girl”. Conversation turns to Gallifreyan connections and I start wondering if we're linking Clara to the Eternals, Death or Time or Pain, but she's also a perfectly ordinary girl. There's the fob watch workaround, I suppose, with Tim in Human Nature getting some Doctorish abilities when he opened the watch. Except if something similar to that is what's happening to Clara it is, as you point out, not under her conscious control, and so not by a mechanism that we've seen before. And that “perfectly ordinary” remains a stumbling block...

Also, don't get me started on rewatching Hide and coming upon lines like “every lonely monster needs a companion” and

[elisi]

Liked this very much. Not least “And don't forget to flap like your life depends on it.”
It's brilliant. And shows the Doctor's perspective nicely - Clara is brilliant under pressure, of course she can do this!

And the callback to the Doctor's outburst in The Beast Below further helped me to follow / make sense of Clara's outburst at the end of the episode.
The thing is that she is so controlled that when things finally spill over, it's like an avalanche. There was an awful lot tied up in that outburst.

I still don't understand how the apparent / possible Time-Head-ness fits in with Emma's remark in Hide that she's “a perfectly ordinary girl”.
That's the thing! She is so ordinary, and they've explained so very carefully how she is perfectly ordinary... And yet she keeps doing all these impossible things, and all the imagery and symbolism is off the scale, so I suspect SHENANIGANS!

Conversation turns to Gallifreyan connections and I start wondering if we're linking Clara to the Eternals, Death or Time or Pain, but she's also a

[promethia_tenk]

I still don't understand how the apparent / possible Time-Head-ness fits in with Emma's remark in Hide that she's “a perfectly ordinary girl”. Conversation turns to Gallifreyan connections and I start wondering if we're linking Clara to the Eternals, Death or Time or Pain, but she's also a perfectly ordinary girl.Back during The Snowmen, we had the ice woman frozen in the pond, who was a (dark) mirror for Clara, being the children's former nanny. She was, in fact, a survival scheme on the part of the Great Intelligence (who was a mirror for the Doctor in this episode): the perfect combination of ice and humanity, everything they needed to survive on earth. I've always taken this as foreshadowing about who Clara was

[promethia_tenk]

then, ultimately, getting stuck in another dimension, put on pause

She is regularly depicted as frozen, doll-like, trapped in various ways.

Possible parallel between Gallifrey getting tucked away 'safe' until it could be revived and Clara? We've been talking for awhile about the re-emergence of Time Lords, which I always rather suspected to mean Clara and the arrival of a post-Time Lord race, not, you know, Gallifrey coming back. But what if they are, in some sense, the same thing?

[owlsie]

>>It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to discover that she is somehow (unbeknownst to herself) connected to Missy.

Missy has definitely been pulling strings here towards some specific end, and has been doing so since at least series 7. It's been suggested that she's both the woman in the shop and the one who left the ad in the newspaper, right? So she's been observing these two people closely enough she can move them however she wants.

She might even be deliberately fashioning herself after Clara with the 1800s nanny look which is entirely out of place with her setting.

[elisi]

Missy has definitely been pulling strings here towards some specific end, and has been doing so since at least series 7. It's been suggested that she's both the woman in the shop and the one who left the ad in the newspaper, right?
Plus there's what-ever-it-was that hacked his dream in the prequel to Asylum... We never found out what that was. I don't think the Daleks could do that. Also what's with that Time Beetle? Someone has been shaping Clara's life.

So she's been observing these two people closely enough she can move them however she wants.
I rather love it. :)

She might even be deliberately fashioning herself after Clara with the 1800s nanny look which is entirely out of place with her setting.
::nods:: I'd love that.

[enevarim]

So hang on, and sorry to thread-jack, but “she's been observing these two people closely enough she can move them however she wants” - are we talking Missy with the Doctor and Clara, or Clara with the Doctor and Danny, here? Given how neatly it could be either (particularly after the end of the last episode), I am moving closer to the idea of Missy/Clara connections. Not sure I like it at all, but it is definitely interesting!

[elisi]

Oh Missy! Someone has been pulling strings for a long time, and it looks like it was her. And what isn't to like? It's brilliant. (If she is the Master it is obviously a million times better.)

[sea_thoughts]

I spotted the Clara/Danny name parallels as well! And Danny's name is even more important as it's the name he chose (choices being very important in Who as a whole and this series in particular). Oswald comes from the Old English 'os' meaning 'god' and 'weald' meaning 'rule', i.e. Clara is a 'divine ruler' (or 'bossy control freak' as she puts it). She doesn't like her surname, she doesn't like being a 'bossy control freak', but Danny says he does. He has no problem with her being a divine ruler, he just wants her to be fair and judge correctly.

I totally understood Clara lashing out at the Doctor the way she did. She was there for him through all his difficult decisions but when she had to make one (a decision he FORCED her to make, not one she voluntarily took), he said it wasn't his problem and left! "You're a big girl now." Yes, but that doesn't mean she's stopped needing your help. You're right, he treated her like River and she's not River.

[elisi]

And Danny's name is even more important as it's the name he chose (choices being very important in Who as a whole and this series in particular).
Also important is that Clara chose Oswin - she chose to be god's friend...

Oswald comes from the Old English 'os' meaning 'god' and 'weald' meaning 'rule', i.e. Clara is a 'divine ruler' (or 'bossy control freak' as she puts it)
I looked all this up ages ago, and then hit myself over the head, because if I'd bothered to think about it I'd have known it... I grew up in the Faroe Islands/Denmark, where the old gods are called 'asar', 'vald' is Faroese for power/rule and friend is 'vin(ur)'. :)

She doesn't like her surname, she doesn't like being a 'bossy control freak', but Danny says he does. He has no problem with her being a divine ruler, he just wants her to be fair and judge correctly.
That is a delightful insight. Thank you!

I totally understood Clara lashing out at the Doctor the way she did. She was there for him through all his difficult decisions but when she had to make one (a

[sea_thoughts]

No, River didn't always cope, but she took great care to hide the damage from the Doctor and didn't let him see how much she hurt a lot of the time. Clara doesn't do that, she's wide open and isn't afraid to let him know she's scared or hurt: unlike River, she grew up with two loving parents and a promise that someone would always find her if she got lost. If anyone has things in common with River, it's Danny: growing up in care, afraid of something under the bed, an ex-soldier who carries the scars of his past, who was pushed too far and said "enough".

Btw, regarding Clara and "eyes", she wears a blouse covered in eyes in Into The Dalek. :)

[elisi]

No, River didn't always cope, but she took great care to hide the damage from the Doctor and didn't let him see how much she hurt a lot of the time. Clara doesn't do that, she's wide open and isn't afraid to let him know she's scared or hurt: unlike River, she grew up with two loving parents and a promise that someone would always find her if she got lost.
::nods a lot:: I've been thinking about this - how the Ponds were damaged (Amy and River both) and thus had great difficulty communicating their emotions.

If anyone has things in common with River, it's Danny: growing up in care, afraid of something under the bed, an ex-soldier who carries the scars of his past, who was pushed too far and said "enough".
Yes, very true. But even he is miles better at explaining himself. He sets boundaries, to protect both Clara and himself.

Btw, regarding Clara and "eyes", she wears a blouse covered in eyes in Into The Dalek. :)
Oh god yes, I remember. We were freaking out over it in this thread. The show was sorta hitting us over the head... And

[purplefringe]

He becomes 'The Doctor Who Waited'

Allll of this essay is perfect and beautiful, as always, but for some reason that line is the one that most jumped out at me, I think because I'd never stopped to consider it like that before. The Doctor learned from The Ponds Who Waited (and the Woman who bides her time in Stormcage…) how to wait out the slow path. He has a bit of practise in The Power of Three, but then really takes it up a notch at Christmas.

Interestingly, you could take that even further - if Eleven was shaped by the Ponds, and grew to mirror them (even as all the Companions, in one way or another, end up mirroring *him*) - Twelve has an element of the 'impossibility' that first drew him to Clara all those years ago. 'Who frowned me this face?'. Just like when he first meets Victorian Clara, he becomes aware that faces are repeating on him in an 'impossible' way. 'Have you seen this face before?' ('She died and she was you!') Sorry, I don't think I'm being very coherent, but I'm sure you get it. Moffat has promised us an

[elisi]

Interestingly, you could take that even further - if Eleven was shaped by the Ponds, and grew to mirror them (even as all the Companions, in one way or another, end up mirroring *him*) - Twelve has an element of the 'impossibility' that first drew him to Clara all those years ago. 'Who frowned me this face?'. Just like when he first meets Victorian Clara, he becomes aware that faces are repeating on him in an 'impossible' way. 'Have you seen this face before?' ('She died and she was you!') Sorry, I don't think I'm being very coherent, but I'm sure you get it.
... That's... He's the man twice dead. (Well, Caecilius lived and Frobisher died, but there is definitely something there. And RTD's explanation for things was that Caecilius was supposed to have died (fixed point) so Frobisher had to die to put things right. Why they had the same face he never explained, but he *did* have a plan, and apparently this is what Moffat is now working with.)

I'll get back to you later, but I just wanted to show my appreciation for your genius!

[purplefringe]

:-) Well that realization only hit me whilst reading your meta, so YAY for mutual inspiration! \o

[elisi]

:-) Well that realization only hit me whilst reading your meta, so YAY for mutual inspiration! \o/
That seems to happen a lot... :D

So...where do you think this is leading? I've just seen a screencap of Clara wielding the sonic screwdriver from next week's ep, so it looks like she's all set to continue evolving into the Doctor, as expected.

Reminds me of Rory, a bit - 'this isn't fair, you're turning me into you.' - Clara felt like that in Kill The Moon, I think,
Yes, definite echoes there. But far more so.

but now she's slipping into the dangerous territory where Ten and Rose ended up, of being addicted to the danger and heedless of the consequences...)Where's the Doctor going, to balance it out? I wouldn't say Ten and Rose, no. They were silly and in love and rather heedless of other people. Twelve and Clara are prickly and co-exist with difficulty - she dislikes a lot of what he does and how he does it, yet she can also see the draw, even if she knows it's bad for her. (Mind you, I think the Doctor is probably still in love

[janne_d]

As always, I love your meta and you are definitely a refuge away from the many people who only seem to watch the show so that they can complain about it in more bitter detail...

I had not noticed the repeating circles in squares, but that is fascinating. And thank you for pointing out the meanings of both Clara and Danny's names - all very interesting stuff.

[elisi]

As always, I love your meta and you are definitely a refuge away from the many people who only seem to watch the show so that they can complain about it in more bitter detail...
Thank you! <3 (And that was what my rant was about. I cut it, because those people probably won't listen anyway...)

I had not noticed the repeating circles in squares, but that is fascinating.
You will now notice them EVERYWHERE, trust me. (F.ex. there are some on a curtain/wallhanging in The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe. Seriously - EVERYWHERE!)

And thank you for pointing out the meanings of both Clara and Danny's names - all very interesting stuff.
When we first heard Clara's names I went to look them up, and my goodness... I knew she'd be something special.

[lyricwrites]

Well, even the TARDIS is a round console in a square (okay, rectangular) box, isn't it? And she's also a machine with a soul.

As for your rant, I would've read it and sympathized, because I have those rants running around in my head. A lot.

[elisi]

Well, even the TARDIS is a round console in a square (okay, rectangular) box, isn't it? And she's also a machine with a soul.
Oooooh, nice catch. And if looked at from above it's a circle in a square. Although the circle in bigger than the square - infinite actually...

As for your rant, I would've read it and sympathized, because I have those rants running around in my head. A lot.
Sadly the people I was angry with wouldn't have read it. So it was pointless. But. Still cross. (Wrote parts out it out here in the comments...)