Did he come, or did he Come?

[e_compass_rosa]

This weekend I’ve been thinking about ejaculation, or about coming, or more specifically about male sexuality and my own ignorance. This line of thought emerged from my reading of a rather old essay by Michael Ventura, entitled Three Erections (a PDF can be downloaded by following the link). It is well-worth reading in its entirety, but here’s the

Comments

[cbertsch]

I think he's exaggerating a little to make the analogy to the female orgasm easier to discern, but is still basically right. I also think it worth pointing out that, aside from the question of coming, there's the question of sustaining an erection, which preoccupies a great many men most of the time and almost all men at least some of the time. The fact that it's possible to feel the sensation of coming without ever getting hard enough to engage in penetrative sex further complicates the picture of male orgasm. For my part, I do think women underestimate the strain that men feel in having to not show weakness.

[e_compass_rosa]

I think I understand that strain, and perhaps at times have underestimated it, but am aware that it exists and have known when I've had partners for whom it was an on-going issue. What has not ever really been expressed to me by a partner (or perhaps expressed but not adequately heard or understood) is a sense that "coming" can happen or be felt at times other than ejaculation.

[cbertsch]

I think it's one of those things, like sensing the interaction of certain muscle groups, that it requires training to perceive fully. But I do think that they sometimes diverge in the manner Ventura suggests.

[e_compass_rosa]

"training" -- or lots of attentive practice

[johnny9fingers]

How many different sorts of orgasm is it possible to have?For chaps it appears to be (with some investigation/work) two or three, not all of which necessarily entail ejaculation.
Followers of the Tantras deliberately delay ejaculation to 'dwell' in the place of orgasm without ejaculation bringing it to an end.
Lots of folk, both men and women, don't know how their bodies work. And some folk, when they find out, still don't do the 'work' to ensure their bodies function properly: if you like, providing them with the pleasures that should be their due.
Talk to a gay man about orgasms and they'll list all the varieties they know of: then you'll hav enough data to make a valid comparison.
As for me, I still envy gay men's ability to be completely uninhibited about all of this stuff, but would have found it remiss in myself not to know how my body functions.

[e_compass_rosa]

I used to talk often and in detail with my gay housemate about orgasm, his and my own. But that was many years ago, and his partner Jon (who also shared the house with us) was seemed slightly embarrassed (or perhaps jealous) that David was sharing so much with me, so our detailed conversations waned over time.

So there's the straightforward ejaculative orgasm, and an anal orgasm, and... From what I'm coming to understand the physical act of ejaculation often coincides with orgasm in men, but they are not synonymous, and can diverge (as CB put it above). Part of the difficulty in wrapping my mind around it is of course that I am not a man, but also I think in language. Ejaculation is calling 'coming' -- "Did you come?" And thus the two acts are tied together when perhaps they shouldn't be.

[dabroots]

Interesting.

I've been having sex for about thirty years, and it's nearly always been pretty vanilla: genital-genital, oral-genital, hand-genital. I think it's quite possible that I could reach an orgasm if stimulated anally, but I'm very touchy about anything being put in there by anyone besides a doctor. Even then, my understanding is that such stimulation might bring about an erection and ejaculation, therefore not having much to do with the notion of an orgasm without an erection and/or ejaculation.

For me, all orgasms have either involved ejaculation or direct stimulation of my penis while it's erect, but perhaps a third or fourth erection in the space of a few hours, after nearly all ejaculate has been pulled out. I haven't been especially adventurous to find out what else might be possible.

[e_compass_rosa]

johnny9fingers mentioned tantra in his comment, and several other people I know (men and women) have found exploration of tantra to be a way to begin to as J. put it"'dwell' in the place of orgasm without ejaculation bringing it to an end." It seems to be a matter of attention perhaps, learning to finely sense what is going on in your body at both a physical and emotional/spiritual level, and then somehow playing with those sensations, or exploring them, to get towards deeper possibilities. That's the way it is for me at least.

[dabroots]

Goodness knows I have the time. I should work on it.

[randy_byers]

The one time I experienced something that in retrospect I'm tempted to call orgasm without ejaculation was in a situation similar to the one you've speculated on. I had just ejaculated recently and started having sex again when I could barely get erect again and then had an overwhelmingly orgasmic sensation without any perceptible ejaculation. I was deeply confused by it all at the time, but looking back at it years later I wondered if it had been orgasm without issue, as it were.

[randy_byers]

For me, ejaculating without coming is a premature ejaculation and is not pleasurable at all. This may be a mostly emotional reaction -- since it invariably happens before my partner has come, and so involves "the strain of not showing weakness" that cbertsch mentions above -- but it has always seemed to me that the sensation of ejaculation is not in itself physically pleasurable. It just feels like a draining. As Ventura says, "virtually no sensation."

Then again, there may be varieties of orgasmless ejaculation as well.

[e_compass_rosa]

Here's kind of a rhetorical question (or maybe not)~~ Is there such a thing as ejaculation without coming (premature ejaculation) when masturbating?

The emotional and the physical are so wrapped up with each other and with the interaction between two people.

[randy_byers]

Sure, I've ejaculated without orgasm when masturbating. It's just as disappointing when solo as with a partner, although less embarrassing. However, it happened more when I was younger and hadn't yet really come, so to speak, to understand/perceive orgasm very clearly. I do think you have to learn how to have an orgasm, and in my case it took years.

[e_compass_rosa]

Yes, attentive practice (in whatever form -- i.e., solo or not) is a good thing!

[markmc03]

I guess I am ignorant about even my own sex. I didn't think it was possible to climax (or 'come'/'cum') without ejaculation. There are for me different intensities ranging from no-feeling (premature ejac.) to an all consuming tingling all over your body accompanying immense satisfaction. But I've never had a sexual relationship where it was possible to simply explore the pleasure of sexual intimacy to find what is possible. Sad, but true. Tantric sounds closest to what you describe, but I have only a theoretical knowledge of the subject. Go figure.

[e_compass_rosa]

I think that many, maybe even most people don't necessarily achieve the kind of intimacy where true sexual possibility can be explored. It seems like it takes developing a shared language and sensitivity that is perhaps uncomfortable, or just not valued within our society. Not necessarily a touchy-feely kind of language, but one that one that is not simplistic or reductionist. And that takes openness of a rather radical nature (in comparison to the rest of society) and time. Or, maybe I'm full of shit and just trying to justify my own sexual ignorance...

[markmc03]

Or not.