The Duggar family

[dreams_of_wings]

Last week it was announced that Michelle Duggar is 6 weeks pregnant with her 18th child. Michelle is in her early forties. Her eldest child is 20, her youngest is 9 months. Michelle is, as one might suspect, a stay-at-home mom and all the children are homeschooled

Comments

[sweetbenny]

Speaking as a member of a very different kind of 20 person (or more) family, I think I speak for everyone when I say:

"Is his name actually Jim-Bob?!"

[dreams_of_wings]

Yes, his name is ACTUALLY Jim Bob.

What's more, all the kids are named with "J" names. Jennifer, Jessa, Jeremiah, Jedidiah...JINGER.

I'm not sure if that's supposed to be pronounced like "Ginger' or what, but it's a terrible name.

[ayelle]

What's wrong with the name Jim Bob? My name's Amy Lee. Double names are quite common and natural-sounding in lots of communities. It tends to depend where you're from, I think; it doesn't sound at all strange to me. I have a cousin named Billy Bob, and my mother's sisters names (when they were kids) were Patty Ellen, Jackie Ann and Dotty Jean. :)

[jurph]

"James Robert" here. I go by J.R., but you can do the math.

[mzrowan]

A fascinating take on the issue. Yes, we should worry more about the kids who are victims of systemic poverty and oppression; they are learning that they have no choice because society doesn't offer them (m)any. The Duggar children are learning that they have no choice because society offers them choices that their parents say are wrong. But at least they are aware that there are choices out there for them should they ever want to take advantage of them.

[nimocynth]

Likely, they perceive it as not their parents, but their God who says that those other choices are wrong. They are aware that there are other choices out there which will lead to their spiritual condemnation--hardly an easy situation in which to take advantage of the existence of those choices.

I have no way to say whether realizing that these choices are choices is easier or harder than overcoming extreme poverty, but that process may be harder than you're making it out to be.

Can we split the difference here???

[gothtique]

Some how....we need to convice people, like the large family in question, that there are beautiful children being thrown into trash heaps, put up for addoption at older ages, and into foster care...
Fine, you want 20 kids, go get them!
... and raise them the way you want...
but don't overpopulate the planet in the process!
They don't all have to look like you...

Re: Can we split the difference here???

[orbitalmechanic]

But it's controlling fertility that's the core issue, right? The love and devotion shown to the children is just a really, really good follow-through, it's not the point.

Re: Can we split the difference here???

[dreams_of_wings]

Yes, exactly. It is awesome that these kids are loved and cared for, treated in a way consistent with the quiverfull's belief that each and every child that comes to them is a blessing. But the issue lies in, a)the assumption that the more children equals being more blessed, and the moral judgments that come with that choice, and b) that there are so few ways to be "good" people in eyes of communities like this. No matter how much I applaud the well-being of the Duggar children, or the family's fiscal management, the fact remains that the structure is oppressive, judgmental, and intolerant.

[kittygomeowr]

You know, I used to joke with my grandmother that with all the grandkids she has, she could start her own army. Right now I'm the oldest (at 24) of over 50 cousins. But this? This is not funny.
This is the reason I don't ever plan to breed. We need fewer people on this planet, not more, and most especially not more who would be willing to talk in terms of "Armies of God".
My only (dubious) consolation in this is that education might help in the long run. But with how our educational system is nowadays, it just makes things seem more bleak.

[chaotic_nipple]

"My only (dubious) consolation in this is that education might help in the long run."

Which is, of course, why they practice home schooling. :-/

[kittygomeowr]

I was homeschooled for several years and I must say that I received a better education from that than any of the private schools which I attended as a kid. I learned how to write well and to think critically and all that fun stuff. Because of this, I feel that it was completely worth it. My brother was homeschooled for longer than I was and he's on the fast track to super smart people success (that, of course, being a technical term). However, I think the defining line was that we could choose to be homeschooled or not. I chose to go to "real" school after a while because I missed other people and was given the choice. My brother chose to remain homeschooled.
However, that being said, I also get a sick feeling in my stomach reading about these kids being homeschooled. While I was homeschooled, I was allowed to read and socialize how I wanted, which gave me a pretty broad view of the world. These kids, I suspect, are being indoctrinated rather than educated. And that is what's scary.

[dancingwolfgrrl]

My first reaction was that at least the Quiverfull women and kids (and men, for that matter) are probably less structurally oppressed than inner city, non-white families living with poverty: people like the Quiverfulls -- that is to say, white working- or middle-class people -- probably have fewer structural barriers to various kinds of privilege than many inner-city folks, in that at least they have the right color skin, seem to be generally employed (which is the American equivalent of "don't suck"), etc.

At the same time, articles like this make me wonder about the extent to which systemic, structural oppression creates a world in which choices that I think of as oppressive appear appealing to other people. In fantasy America, where everyone has access to healthy food, all the education they want, and excellent healthcare, what kinds of choices would people make? It's hard for me to even guess.

[plymouth]

Wow, thanks for posting that article link. Very thought provoking even though I don't do the religion thing. I can see my perspective reflected in the UU philosophy without the religious connection - politically and morally.

[dancingwolfgrrl]

You're welcome! It was definitely a way I'd never thought about privilege before when I first encountered it, yet it also totally describes me, and therefore, it's one of a couple of articles I can't stop linking to. So I'm glad you found it interesting!

[radtea]

Fascinating meditation on religion.

I never understood Marxism until I'd done some time in the working class. Then it suddenly all made sense. Never thought about religion in the same terms, but there are definite similarities.