Torchwood Meta: For Different Values of Love by cupidsbow

[cupidsbow]

You've probably all noticed that I've been watching Torchwood and reading the fanfic lately. What you probably haven't yet realised is that I think I've... um... sort of... fallen into fannish love

Comments

[cupidsbow]

I agree that there's a difference between an open relationship and polyamory, and also that a poly relationship doesn't have to mean a sexual relationship. But I think I'm seeing an open relationship on a spectrum of poly options, rather than an either/or thing. You know, people being fluid and moving from one to another as their needs and level of intimacy changes. I like that idea and want to explore some of the permutations, and how the characters negotiate moving from one type of expectation to another.

I think you're right about the Mormon baggage of polygamy, which is a shame in a way. That's one of the reasons I'm looking to see if there are other commonly used terms out there.

[laughingacademy]

Every time I see or read a news item about the FLDS or their ilk, I want to shout, “That’s polygyny, not polygamy!” It’s a pet peeve.

[wychwood]

Polygyny is a sub-form of polygamy, though - it's still a valid usage! There's also polyandry, though that's very rare (the only example I can think of offhand is brother marriage, where a set of brothers marry one woman - I think it was Tibet where I read about it happening).

[cupidsbow]

I always found SGA OT4 a bit much too. It could be fun fantasy, but I rarely bought it as a real dynamic.

I can see why you're interested in the unhappy aspects. That's not my cup of tea, but I can see the potential there in terms of story. I think what's made me interested is that I've looked around at my life and realised I have several friends/aquaintances in successful and happy poly relationships, and they just don't fit the cliche at all; and that's made me very interested in looking at what can make that kind of partnership work.

[cupidsbow]

*nods* I'm totally with you there. The thing that interests me is the negotiation -- how two people become self-aware enough that they can genuinely gauge their limits, and then use that to work out a contract. So yeah, it might not always be a happy process, even if it has a happy ending, and it surely won't be fluffy bunnies.

You know, I often think people write difficult premises as PWP because it's too hard to do it seriously. I want to read (and maybe write) about this seriously.

[siouxieq]

I sometimes think people get too tied up with equating sex to love - in your definition of polyamory it can be either a loving or a sexual relationship, but with a character like Jack (who will "shag anything that is pretty enough") I doubt that there is much love happening in most of his sexual encounters. The way I read Jack is he views sex like most of us view chocolate or icecream - it's about gratification with no real strings attached. (I'm not saying that he doesn't treat his partners with respect, but it is take it when it's offered, and no real worries if you don't get it this time). I would be far happier with defining polyamory as "loving" (in this I mean being invested in the other persons life with some minor degree of commitment) more than one person at the same time, with the presumption that there is a sexual aspect to this relationship as well

[cupidsbow]

See, we'll have to agree to disagree about Jack, because while I think he does categorise some sex exactly as you say, I think he doesn't value all relationships (sexual or otherwise) the same way. I don't think having lots of casual sex is mutually exclusive with have a committed emotional relationship too. But that's something I'm still thinking about -- it's why I'm suddenly interested in writing about this.

I'll have to come back to your comments about Dr Who, as I haven't see the last couple of seasons yet; I'm looking forward to it very much, and will watch out for the part you mention!

[tigercheetah]

I'd say that during series 1, their relationship was definately number 1. But during series 2, it's become a little more important and therefore number 2 might apply

[cupidsbow]

You know, two of my very close friends are in poly relationships, and the situation you outline (one of the falling in love with someone else and leaving) hasn't happened. Because when they fall in love with someone else, the someone else becomes part of the family, in one way or another

[tigercheetah]

I agree with what you've said. :)

For me personally, I don't believe that you should have open relationships if you feel the need to lay down a set of rules about how often and with whom you stray. You're either comfortable with sharing your partner with other people or your not. You shouldn't complicate things. As long as Ianto isn't attached to Jack in a romatic way, I don't think he'd be too bothered about what Jack's gets up away from the Hub.

I actually believe that Jack is too good looking to sleep around because he's more likely to break hearts than Owen or Gwen or Tosh. :)

[cupidsbow]

But Tosh is the best looking member of the team! :)

[tigercheetah]

I forgot to add that if Jack and Ianto's feelings for each other aren't serious, Jack probably sleeps around with whoever he likes, although he respects Ianto enough to not over-do it.

If however their feelings for each other are getting serious - even if they don't admit it to each other - I don't think either of them would be that inclined to have an open relationship. When your feelings for someone are very strong, you tend to automatically lose interest in being with other people.

[cupidsbow]

When your feelings for someone are very strong, you tend to automatically lose interest in being with other people.

See, this is what I'm questioning. I used to think it was true, and maybe it is. But it's an assumption I want to test. That's why I'm interested in writing about Jack and Ianto -- I want to see if there's a way that polyamory will genuinely work between them, if I put all my 21st century assumptions aside. :)

[strangedave]

I think when you are *infatuated* with someone, it is natural for those feelings to dominate enough that you don't seek out anything else, and it is normal for infatuation to dominate the early period of a relationship, that involving addictive new relationship phase. It is possible to be infatuated with more than one person at a time, but it usually only happens should the relationship with both develop at the same time (which can certainly be a cause for celebration if you are poly, and can certainly be a cause of massive heartache if you are not (and sometimes even if you are)).

It is natural for infatuation to wear off after a time, however. You can remain in love, but there comes a time when it is healthy for other priorities and interests to reassert themself, to want to return to exploring some aspects of life separately. And for some people, those other aspects of life can include seeing other people sexually.

[alias_sqbr]

When your feelings for someone are very strong, you tend to automatically lose interest in being with other people.

This is true of me, and I would say of a large proportion of people, but having seen my poly friends relationships, some people really are able to deeply, truly love more than one person at a time, or love one person and be interested in sleeping with other people etc. It's not something I am able to completely get my head around since I'm very monogamous by nature, but it's demonstrably undeniably true.

Whether or not it's true of Jack and Ianto is a different question of course, but I certainly don't think it can be dismissed out of hand.