liberal think tank says: surge is working

[caspian_x]

Farkline: (Some Guy) [SPIFFY] Liberal thinktank visits Iraq and says that despite Democratic conventional wisdom, morale is high and the US has a good chance of winning. The negative media coverage is, of course, all Bush's fault though

Once I get over the initial shock that the article was A) written by members of a liberal thinktank and 2) this

Comments

[ikkarus01]

I'm still not buying what they're trying to sell me.

[caspian_x]

At this point, I wonder what it would take for some people to actually believe we are doing worthwhile work over there and seeing slow but sure results. I think some people will refuse to believe it no matter what the evidence says.

Seems I've heard that very criticism about my faith in creationism...

[ikkarus01]

I don't buy it because the Administration is so intent on their "wait for the report in September" stance. If the surge was really working, they'd be falling all over themselves to take credit for it. When have they ever missed an opportunity to declare their own AWESOME GOOD NEWS? With the President's poll numbers practically subterranean, how would telling us all to wait for the official report help them if the news is really any good? No, I smell bullshit. And that report will just be more spin about how we're making "steady progress" and we just need to "keep at it" until the "job is done" or whatever nonsense they decide to spew.

Nope. Not buying. Not even a little.

[caspian_x]

Considering that Patraeus was unanimously confirmed by the Senate as commander and the Administration likely knows its lost all credibility, perhaps "Wait for September" is a PR move. Let the man with more respect bring the good news.

[incyr]

Regardless of whether or not it's working, I still don't think it's worth the cost the American people have had to pay, both in Tax Dollars and in cost of lives.

And even if it's working, if it's going as slowly as it is, then the cost to those of us the Gov't is SUPPOSED to be working for is goign to be even larger. That's the reason I don't support the war.

We could be making the most perfect utopia over there, and I'd still be against it, unless they were planning on declaring it part of the US and having us inhabit it as a colony, which wouldn't work in this day and age, especially over in the Middle East.

[kaali_thara]

At this point, I dispute any claim that it is "working". The situation may be salvageable, and I do hope that it is. Some good might be able to come out of this fiasco.

I am concerned that this sort of happy happy joy joy article (didn't read it, just based off your comments) will lead to forgetfulness of how truly this administration screwed the pooch. A somewhat acceptable result cannot be used as retroactive justification for the lying and incompetence that has come before.

the authors seem to define "victory" as something other than "sustainable stability". I think that has been the victory we have been seeking all along.

I'm sorry, I thought the original reason we went into Iraq was because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction which they were going to use against us. That was the justification for the invasion. That was the reason Congress authorized the effort. That was why we pulled our troops out of Afghanistan & the hunt for bin Laden to take out Hussein. Every other reason since, no matter the potentially

[caspian_x]

First, you should really read the article.

Second, it's not just salvageable. There are real results. Places are becoming safer. People are turning against al-Qaeda and turning to the US and Iraqi forces. These are Very Good Things.

I am concerned that this sort of happy happy joy joy article (didn't read it, just based off your comments) will lead to forgetfulness of how truly this administration screwed the pooch. A somewhat acceptable result cannot be used as retroactive justification for the lying and incompetence that has come before.

No offense, but that seems a bit vindictive and petty. I mean, sure it can be fun to play the blame game, but I'd rather be concerned with the results. When people are saying that good things are happening in Iraq, people are safer, etc. and the response is "Yes, but don't forget, Bush screwed up!" I have to cry foul.

I'm sorry, I thought the original reason we went into Iraq was because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction which they were going to use against us. No, no, no, no, no, no, NO.

[kaali_thara]

No offense, but that seems a bit vindictive and petty. I mean, sure it can be fun to play the blame game, but I'd rather be concerned with the results. I would have no problems with burying the hatchet. Except I have been given no cause by this administration to do so. Instead of owning their mistakes, they have lied and obfuscated in order to avoid responsibility. I could forgive an error in judgment. It's not like I ever expected much in critical thinking from him in the first place. But I am under no moral or ethical obligation to forgive when he is incapable of apologizing. As a Catholic, you should recognize that simple need. Even God requires that you ASK for forgiveness before it can be given. Since he hasn't asked, I certainly am not going to give

[caspian_x]

So Very Not Catholic.

Second, I really don't care whether you forgive him or not. Pragmatically, however, if things are going well in Iraq, the response of "Don't forget: Bush Lied, Kids Died!" is neither helpful nor particularly relevant. I'm not criticizing your choice not to forgive, I'm criticizing the fact that you feel it necessary to remind us of how badly Bush screwed up on the tail of good news in Iraq.

Since you used a baking analogy, I'll use an analogy of my own. Let's say you and I go out for a drive. You warn me that the car need maintenance but I ignore you. We are on the highway and the car dies. After a long painstaking time of fixing the car, in which I am continually criticized for screwing up, I finally gain some progress with the car. You respond, "Yes, but don't forget that you caused this mess in the first place." I would find that petty and distracting from the pragmatic point.

[ikkarus01]

Glenn Greenwald over at Salon has a few words to say about this Op-Ed and its authors. I found it interesting, though a bit caustic. Worth reading, if only to put this in perspective with other things these same authors have said in the past.

[caspian_x]

Hmmm, that is interesting. It seems reports that these guys were the quintessential war-protesters were greatly exaggerated. That said, I don't think it diminishes what they are reporting to have seen in Iraq.

[ikkarus01]

No, but it does put it in a different light. It's one thing to hear "things are getting better!" from real critics of the war. It's quite another to hear it from a couple of yahoos who suddenly proclaim they're war critics, when their very own previous statements show them in support.

[vortech]

Why don’t we ever hear about this on our news?

We do. As evidenced by the fact that this entire post is about how you heard about it on our news.

[caspian_x]

Point taken. Why don't we hear about this more often in the mainstream media and news networks?

[ikkarus01]

Because it's bullshit?