Farkline: (Some Guy) [SPIFFY] Liberal thinktank visits Iraq and says that despite Democratic conventional wisdom, morale is high and the US has a good chance of winning. The negative media coverage is, of course, all Bush's fault though
Once I get over the initial shock that the article was A) written by members of a
liberal thinktank and 2) this
(
Read more... )
I am concerned that this sort of happy happy joy joy article (didn't read it, just based off your comments) will lead to forgetfulness of how truly this administration screwed the pooch. A somewhat acceptable result cannot be used as retroactive justification for the lying and incompetence that has come before.
the authors seem to define "victory" as something other than "sustainable stability". I think that has been the victory we have been seeking all along.
I'm sorry, I thought the original reason we went into Iraq was because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction which they were going to use against us. That was the justification for the invasion. That was the reason Congress authorized the effort. That was why we pulled our troops out of Afghanistan & the hunt for bin Laden to take out Hussein. Every other reason since, no matter the potentially ( ... )
Reply
Second, it's not just salvageable. There are real results. Places are becoming safer. People are turning against al-Qaeda and turning to the US and Iraqi forces. These are Very Good Things.
I am concerned that this sort of happy happy joy joy article (didn't read it, just based off your comments) will lead to forgetfulness of how truly this administration screwed the pooch. A somewhat acceptable result cannot be used as retroactive justification for the lying and incompetence that has come before.
No offense, but that seems a bit vindictive and petty. I mean, sure it can be fun to play the blame game, but I'd rather be concerned with the results. When people are saying that good things are happening in Iraq, people are safer, etc. and the response is "Yes, but don't forget, Bush screwed up!" I have to cry foul.
I'm sorry, I thought the original reason we went into Iraq was because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction which they were going to use against us. No, no, no, no, no, no, NO. ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Second, I really don't care whether you forgive him or not. Pragmatically, however, if things are going well in Iraq, the response of "Don't forget: Bush Lied, Kids Died!" is neither helpful nor particularly relevant. I'm not criticizing your choice not to forgive, I'm criticizing the fact that you feel it necessary to remind us of how badly Bush screwed up on the tail of good news in Iraq.
Since you used a baking analogy, I'll use an analogy of my own. Let's say you and I go out for a drive. You warn me that the car need maintenance but I ignore you. We are on the highway and the car dies. After a long painstaking time of fixing the car, in which I am continually criticized for screwing up, I finally gain some progress with the car. You respond, "Yes, but don't forget that you caused this mess in the first place." I would find that petty and distracting from the pragmatic point.
Reply
Reply
Yes, I suppose the republican connection is there, but you were saying it doesn't excuse this administration, not Republicans in general. I gather the reason you can't say the latter is because many Democrats voted to go to war as well.
Also, I don't think you can really call Bush the figurehead of the Republican party anymore. After is immigration insanity, Republicans are counting the days until he leaves office along with Democrats.
Reply
Too many Republicans toed the party line even long after the lies had started coming out. This administration tricked the nation, lied and disseminated false information. I can forgive anyone for trusting that he wouldn't be so amoral. But when the Republicans refused to acknowledge it and instead called Democrats and the EVIL LIBERALS unAmerican because we didn't like being lied to and believe that it is every citizen's right to question the government and hold our political leaders accountable...
Let's just say it will be a long time before I forget the way the Republicans abused 9/11.
Reply
Reply
As far as lies, if we are limiting the discussion to Iraq, I am thinking in particular of the State of the Union discussion of attempts to obtain plutonium, despite the fact that our government already knew that the tip was unsubstantiated.
Reply
Our government "knew" that the tip was unsubstantiated? Are you talking about Iraq's attempts to get yellowcake from Niger? Because that wasn't unsubstantiated. Joe Wilson said it was unsubstantiated, but he's about as reliable as a compass in a magnet shop. A bipartisan Senate Committee later confirmed that Wilson was wrong. Iraq was seeking to expand commercial relations with Niger. Guess what Niger's only export is? Enriched uranium. Gee, I wonder what Saddam wanted... Any other lies from the man?
Reply
I was once told I hated America and should get the fuck out and go to Canada or Britain before, in high school, by the motherfucking ROTC sergeant. How do you think I felt, being pulled out of an assembly honoring me, among others? How do you think I felt being singled out because I didn't want to stand for a stupid piece of cloth? Does the fact that fabric is just fabric make me hate the Constitution? Quite frankly, I'm surprised Sarge's posse didn't beat the shit out of me.
Incidentally, he loved America so much, he went to prison for having sex with a minor.
Reply
Reply
Reply
So while there was no direct link there, toppling Saddam's regime in Iraq furthered the general war an terror (and, although no one will admit it directly, plant the seeds for future revolutions that are so desperately needed in the Muslim world).
Reply
Reply
Well, perhaps it can't be solved solely militarily, but - at least in dealing with al-Qaeda and the militant insurgents - I can't see diplomacy working too well either. With the Iraqi government? Yes. With the nutjobs who think it's their duty to kill us and/or each other? Not so much.
Reply
Leave a comment