Reading too many a post by the Guns'n'Handcuffs people had got me thinking: Were the so-called H/D subtext (otherwisely known as text that can easily be taken out of context) purely unintentional
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I think we luck out in that JKR isn't really thinking about it. That is, she's luckily not so aware of slashy readings that she's going to second guess herself on what she wants to say because it sounds slashy
( ... )
Wow. I am totally agreeing with a comment that struck down all three of my conspiracy theories X-D!!! I guess I was more thinking along the line of "if it's painfully obvious to me, then certainly it was painfully obvious to her as well!"
That is, she's luckily not so aware of slashy readings that she's going to second guess herself on what she wants to say because it sounds slashy.
That is very likely! Though this brings up a new thought: Would Harry's stalker behaviors have appeared to Rowling to have a romantic undertone, if Harry were female? In other words, were what Rowling was doing through Harry, regardless of this character's gender, somewhat romantic?
There was one thing I forgot to include: Harry's feeling a sence of *power* when he thought he'd be able to break into ROR, when he thought Malfoy must've frozen terrified on the other side of the wall. It was just... I can't be the only pervert who sensed a sexual implication (maybe unintional) there.
I can't think of any other time Harry has literally set out to watch
( ... )
Would Harry's stalker behaviors have appeared to Rowling to have a romantic undertone, if Harry were female? In other words, were what Rowling was doing through Harry, regardless of this character's gender, somewhat romantic?
I think if Harry was a girl and Draco a boy, or vice versa, the books'd probably be heading for H/D. Sure, they'd pretend not to like each other, but we know what women are like, don't we? *rolls eyes* But of course, Rowling's "magic" touch when it comes to heterosexual relationships means H/D would probably come out more like H/G or James/Lily. The horror!
Oh yeah, the good women such as Lily could totally tell apart reformable bad boys from those who'll remain jerks for life. So unless you are Lily, DO NOT GO FOR THE BAD BOYS!!!
But of course, Rowling's "magic" touch when it comes to heterosexual relationships means H/D would probably come out more like H/G or James/Lily. The horror!
*ROFL*
Yup. Should keep Rowling's magic touch well away from H/D :-P Though I've gotta say since Harry is clearly no Saint Lily, even if he or Draco were a girl the pair's dynamics would've been different (ie better) than that of James/Lily. And I don't believe it an easy task for any ship to sink to H/G's level, oh the horror indeed X-D
I agree wholeheartedly with you here. It was just *too much* obsession going around. I'm not a H/D shipper, and still while I was reading, I was wondering and shaking my head. The problem with pairing Harry with a female is, that must be done believably. After all, even if Draco has had to wait till this book to have a truly important role, he had had three times more interaction with Harry that Ginny. H/G was sudden, even if Rowling has tried to make it as if coming from a long shot. But I didn't feel it that way, that *real* as H/D. Harry's obsession with Malfoy was very real, you could taste it in the sheets. It was raw, and it was kind of close to the first outburst of (obsessive) love Harry felt for Cho, even if he seemed motivated by hate. So… no slashers shut down here. I would say, Rowling gave us material, and I bet she was laughing out loud. Still is.
Haha thanks! But do read SM's comment above about clueless!Rowling as well- sounds more probable than my evil projections :D
Harry's obsession with Malfoy was very real, you could taste it in the sheets. It was raw, and it was kind of close to the first outburst of (obsessive) love Harry felt for Cho, even if he seemed motivated by hate.
Ohoh well put! I did believe in Harry's little crush on Cho, especially before OOTP, the book where Harry's real interest in girls came under heavy doubt :P
By the way, as what seemed to attract Harry were Cho and Ginny's prettiness PLUS boyish traits (both seekers, thus athletic, aggressive and risk-taking), and what turned him off about Cho was when she acted like a typical heart-broken girl, I would say his dating the both of them hasn't shut down his road to m/m romance at all :P
That is true... I'm starting to suspect that Rowling likes boys so much, that, when she is inside harry's mind, she still continue liking boys. After all, as you say, Harry(Rowling) like his(her) love interest to be handsome (pardon, ) and having quite socially male traits... She can't picture how is to be in love with a woman. Maybe SM is right, and Rowling is just clueless...
I think that if someone pointed out the slashy subtext for JKR, she would probably laugh and understand how it could be read that way, but I don't think it was in any way intentional. It's all in JKR's subconscious, babe! Consciously, she's writing Harry falling in love with Ginny, but her subconscious knows that that storyline doesn't really make sense, and that Harry is gay and in love with Malfoy. ;D
But seriosly, you notice the Snarry, even though you don't ship it, but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none. These things aren't as obvious to her as it is to us. This reminds me, I have a friend, who is very interesting in fanfic, and slash from a scientific POV. She told me once about a bad detective story she had written as a teenager, where the two male characters had a very close "platonic" relationship, wherein they constantly had to sleep in the same bed, because there was only one, etc. Anyway, she had tried to write a female love interest into the story for one of the character, a girl
( ... )
Okay, subconsciously slasher!Rowling is definitely fun to contemplate as well :-) Though, seriously, hasn't her editor(s) caught anything fishy about the excessive descriptions of Harry being obsessed with another boy? (While at least one editor wondered if it was approprite for Draco to be good at Occlumency :P!)
but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none.
Presumably has none. I would be very very surprised if she doesn't know about the existence of H/D and Snarry fandom, at least :P Though I don't disagree Rowling was likely unaware of how her Draco arc came off to some of the corrupt minds *g*
I very much want to read your friend's oh-so-gay detective story, can it be arranged ;-P?
I know! Like which rock were you hiding under when Hurricane Cho swept over???
Personally I am much more interested in bisexual characters, and like someone said, before HBP Harry was kinda asexual (per his weirdly unreactive experience with Cho), and how could that bode well for Draco etc ;-P?
and we have the MONSTER
I love how we are CAPITALIZING the MONSTER *sniggers* But we really should be grateful that Rowling wrote and ruined the H/G- if it was well-written, or at least believably written, then Harry slash shippers won't be feeling so smug now.
Oh the authorial intent ignoring route is just fine, I just can't help being a paranoid sometimes. It's like with the Unbreakable Vow, since even I could figure out what *the task* must be, I just couldn't fathom the possibility Snape did not- but that seems to be one mainstream reading of the situation!
proper reply latermerrymelodyAugust 30 2005, 17:21:32 UTC
Harry's having feelings for Draco (he just hasn't realized it yet) even when he's dating Ginny
Hee. You've gotta love Maya's point that he goes from slashing Draco to making out with Ginny. Even minus the slash-tinted glasses, it kind of implies Harry's aroused by violence. Of course, he's such a little sadist, who'd be surprised?
Re: proper reply later_rp_zeal_August 30 2005, 18:12:58 UTC
it kind of implies Harry's aroused by violence
Shhhhh. You'd want to keep that disrespectful thought about our hero from those who'd very much enjoy using violence on you for it ;-P
The way that bathroom scene was done was very, very sensuous- one of the most in the series in fact. I especially love how Draco's blood in the water were described as like crimson flowers- must be the sucker for sappy, tragic-feeling romance in me taking notice. If we learn in the next book that Harry left a scar or two on Draco's chest I might die from morbid excitement X-D
Re: proper reply latermerrymelodyAugust 30 2005, 18:15:54 UTC
I loved the bathroom scene, too. I think it was my favourite chapter, ever. *hides from all the 'Spinner's End' fans* And such an intimate setting! (Um, Harry, word to the wise, you might not always find other boys crying in there next time if you insist on barging in on them.)
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That is, she's luckily not so aware of slashy readings that she's going to second guess herself on what she wants to say because it sounds slashy.
That is very likely! Though this brings up a new thought: Would Harry's stalker behaviors have appeared to Rowling to have a romantic undertone, if Harry were female? In other words, were what Rowling was doing through Harry, regardless of this character's gender, somewhat romantic?
There was one thing I forgot to include: Harry's feeling a sence of *power* when he thought he'd be able to break into ROR, when he thought Malfoy must've frozen terrified on the other side of the wall. It was just... I can't be the only pervert who sensed a sexual implication (maybe unintional) there.
I can't think of any other time Harry has literally set out to watch ( ... )
Reply
I think if Harry was a girl and Draco a boy, or vice versa, the books'd probably be heading for H/D. Sure, they'd pretend not to like each other, but we know what women are like, don't we? *rolls eyes*
But of course, Rowling's "magic" touch when it comes to heterosexual relationships means H/D would probably come out more like H/G or James/Lily. The horror!
Reply
Oh yeah, the good women such as Lily could totally tell apart reformable bad boys from those who'll remain jerks for life. So unless you are Lily, DO NOT GO FOR THE BAD BOYS!!!
But of course, Rowling's "magic" touch when it comes to heterosexual relationships means H/D would probably come out more like H/G or James/Lily. The horror!
*ROFL*
Yup. Should keep Rowling's magic touch well away from H/D :-P Though I've gotta say since Harry is clearly no Saint Lily, even if he or Draco were a girl the pair's dynamics would've been different (ie better) than that of James/Lily. And I don't believe it an easy task for any ship to sink to H/G's level, oh the horror indeed X-D
Reply
The problem with pairing Harry with a female is, that must be done believably. After all, even if Draco has had to wait till this book to have a truly important role, he had had three times more interaction with Harry that Ginny. H/G was sudden, even if Rowling has tried to make it as if coming from a long shot. But I didn't feel it that way, that *real* as H/D.
Harry's obsession with Malfoy was very real, you could taste it in the sheets. It was raw, and it was kind of close to the first outburst of (obsessive) love Harry felt for Cho, even if he seemed motivated by hate.
So… no slashers shut down here. I would say, Rowling gave us material, and I bet she was laughing out loud. Still is.
Reply
Harry's obsession with Malfoy was very real, you could taste it in the sheets. It was raw, and it was kind of close to the first outburst of (obsessive) love Harry felt for Cho, even if he seemed motivated by hate.
Ohoh well put! I did believe in Harry's little crush on Cho, especially before OOTP, the book where Harry's real interest in girls came under heavy doubt :P
By the way, as what seemed to attract Harry were Cho and Ginny's prettiness PLUS boyish traits (both seekers, thus athletic, aggressive and risk-taking), and what turned him off about Cho was when she acted like a typical heart-broken girl, I would say his dating the both of them hasn't shut down his road to m/m romance at all :P
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She can't picture how is to be in love with a woman. Maybe SM is right, and Rowling is just clueless...
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And she thinks the biggest problem among her fans is that some of them fall for the bad boys *eg*
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But seriosly, you notice the Snarry, even though you don't ship it, but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none. These things aren't as obvious to her as it is to us. This reminds me, I have a friend, who is very interesting in fanfic, and slash from a scientific POV. She told me once about a bad detective story she had written as a teenager, where the two male characters had a very close "platonic" relationship, wherein they constantly had to sleep in the same bed, because there was only one, etc. Anyway, she had tried to write a female love interest into the story for one of the character, a girl ( ... )
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but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none.
Presumably has none. I would be very very surprised if she doesn't know about the existence of H/D and Snarry fandom, at least :P Though I don't disagree Rowling was likely unaware of how her Draco arc came off to some of the corrupt minds *g*
I very much want to read your friend's oh-so-gay detective story, can it be arranged ;-P?
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I know! Like which rock were you hiding under when Hurricane Cho swept over???
Personally I am much more interested in bisexual characters, and like someone said, before HBP Harry was kinda asexual (per his weirdly unreactive experience with Cho), and how could that bode well for Draco etc ;-P?
and we have the MONSTER
I love how we are CAPITALIZING the MONSTER *sniggers*
But we really should be grateful that Rowling wrote and ruined the H/G- if it was well-written, or at least believably written, then Harry slash shippers won't be feeling so smug now.
Oh the authorial intent ignoring route is just fine, I just can't help being a paranoid sometimes. It's like with the Unbreakable Vow, since even I could figure out what *the task* must be, I just couldn't fathom the possibility Snape did not- but that seems to be one mainstream reading of the situation!
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Hee. You've gotta love Maya's point that he goes from slashing Draco to making out with Ginny. Even minus the slash-tinted glasses, it kind of implies Harry's aroused by violence. Of course, he's such a little sadist, who'd be surprised?
Reply
Shhhhh. You'd want to keep that disrespectful thought about our hero from those who'd very much enjoy using violence on you for it ;-P
The way that bathroom scene was done was very, very sensuous- one of the most in the series in fact. I especially love how Draco's blood in the water were described as like crimson flowers- must be the sucker for sappy, tragic-feeling romance in me taking notice. If we learn in the next book that Harry left a scar or two on Draco's chest I might die from morbid excitement X-D
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And such an intimate setting! (Um, Harry, word to the wise, you might not always find other boys crying in there next time if you insist on barging in on them.)
But I don't want Draco scarred. :( *is sap*
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Funnily we got a Malfoy (or a Black, hey I actually prefer to think of them as members of the Black) crying in both chapters, though ;-)
But I don't want Draco scarred.
Are you absolutely sure? Think of it as their own little secret, which could lead to a huge variety of bedroom kinks...... *attempts to corrupt*
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