Reading too many a post by the Guns'n'Handcuffs people had got me thinking: Were the so-called H/D subtext (otherwisely known as text that can easily be taken out of context) purely unintentional
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I think that if someone pointed out the slashy subtext for JKR, she would probably laugh and understand how it could be read that way, but I don't think it was in any way intentional. It's all in JKR's subconscious, babe! Consciously, she's writing Harry falling in love with Ginny, but her subconscious knows that that storyline doesn't really make sense, and that Harry is gay and in love with Malfoy. ;D
But seriosly, you notice the Snarry, even though you don't ship it, but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none. These things aren't as obvious to her as it is to us. This reminds me, I have a friend, who is very interesting in fanfic, and slash from a scientific POV. She told me once about a bad detective story she had written as a teenager, where the two male characters had a very close "platonic" relationship, wherein they constantly had to sleep in the same bed, because there was only one, etc. Anyway, she had tried to write a female love interest into the story for one of the character, a girl who looked like she did, but somehow she never managed to get as good a grip of this girl as the two male leads, and she became increasingly irritated with her, and made her part smaller and smaller. Today, when she's reading this story, she can completely see that these two male characters are sooooo slashy, and that that's probably what went wrong with the girl -she was a forced self-insertion, who probably was her way of stopping the direction her subconscious took with the story. But at the time she was writing it, it wouldn't have occurred to her that her characters could be gay. So I think it's something like that we're dealing with in HP as well. ;D
Okay, subconsciously slasher!Rowling is definitely fun to contemplate as well :-) Though, seriously, hasn't her editor(s) caught anything fishy about the excessive descriptions of Harry being obsessed with another boy? (While at least one editor wondered if it was approprite for Draco to be good at Occlumency :P!)
but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none.
Presumably has none. I would be very very surprised if she doesn't know about the existence of H/D and Snarry fandom, at least :P Though I don't disagree Rowling was likely unaware of how her Draco arc came off to some of the corrupt minds *g*
I very much want to read your friend's oh-so-gay detective story, can it be arranged ;-P?
Haha, well, I'll spare you that, but I'll give you a summary:
Basically, when I was a child, there were these books I adored, about a super-pretty, super-gifted and super-kind girl orphan who worked at a crofter's holding, until one day she found out she was the long-lost grand daughter to the rich nobel man in town, and became a fine lady instead. I loved these books that at nine, I tried to write a story just like it. Only, it couldn't be exactly the same, so I change some details, like the names of the girl, made her a brunette instead of a blonde, made the rich noble man younger, and father of three small children. Oh, and she wasn't at all related to the rich guy. Instead, he saw what a good worker she was, and bought her from the crofter, for 15 crowns. So that she could become the... erhm... nanny for his three small children. The girl, incidently, turned out to be such a great nanny, that one day rich noble dude took her aside, and announced that she didn't have to work anymore, she was to become his heir instead. Yeah. He had three children, and yet would let his supergood nanny ineherit his enitre fortune. You wonder what, exactly, she was so good at. But then again, maybe we just don't want to know. ;D
Um, that's not pedophile-ish, not really. It's just the general population with their unpure minds would highly suspect the rich dude's motive to be totally er, unselfish ;-P Thanks for sharing hon!
So was this your very first piece of fiction? How long was it?
Heh, well, my impure adult mind don't think that rich guy is so kind as my innocent child-mind did. ;P
No, it wasn't the first, though possibly the firsat written with my own hands. When I was younger, I let my mum or my sister write while I dictated, because I was too lazy to actually write stuff down. ;-) It was three "books", only one book contained about seven pages, and most of the space of those pages were drawings. So heh, not very long. :D
While at least one editor wondered if it was approprite for Draco to be good at Occlumency :P!
That cracked me up. The editor should come join fandom, she'd fit right in - OMG how dare u say anybody can do ANYTHING better than Harry? Or else she's just used to the Sueification of the Gryffindors. Maybe she has fun with it: 'Jo, have you thought about mentioning how Albus' robes are shiny? Has it really been clearly expressed exactly how pretty Ginny is? And I'd really like it if you added a line or two on Harry's bravery/sudden good looks/DADA skills/Quidditch playing, please.'
OMG how dare u say anybody can do ANYTHING better than Harry?
I love that Rowling (had to have?) explained Harry's incompetence in a positive light too. But I was happy she decided to keep Draco's one advantage (apart from creative badge-making) over Harry despite the editor's uncertainty about it.
Haha maybe we've all encountered that particular editor under disguise in fandom already!!!
Yeah, even though it didn't make much sense - Harry's no good at concealing his emotions? Maybe in OotP, but otherwise... Plus, that's kind of worse - Draco's purposely shutting down his compassion? So what's Harry's (and Fred, and George, and Ginny *lists characters for hours*) excuse, then? He just doesn't feel it at all?
All the more fodder for secretly-good-and-angsty!Draco, come to think of it, er.
So what's Harry's (and Fred, and George, and Ginny *lists characters for hours*) excuse, then? He just doesn't feel it at all?
You mean you've missed all the glorious moments when our Gryff folks were putting their good qualities to display? Clearly this series is not for you. You are just bent on hero-hating, you are :P
Seriously though, Rowling's comment can logically be taken as: What you see of Harry's good qualities are what you get, while Draco really is a better person than he lets on, ha! Though I am not sure she really intended to mean it that way...
But seriosly, you notice the Snarry, even though you don't ship it, but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none. These things aren't as obvious to her as it is to us. This reminds me, I have a friend, who is very interesting in fanfic, and slash from a scientific POV. She told me once about a bad detective story she had written as a teenager, where the two male characters had a very close "platonic" relationship, wherein they constantly had to sleep in the same bed, because there was only one, etc. Anyway, she had tried to write a female love interest into the story for one of the character, a girl who looked like she did, but somehow she never managed to get as good a grip of this girl as the two male leads, and she became increasingly irritated with her, and made her part smaller and smaller. Today, when she's reading this story, she can completely see that these two male characters are sooooo slashy, and that that's probably what went wrong with the girl -she was a forced self-insertion, who probably was her way of stopping the direction her subconscious took with the story. But at the time she was writing it, it wouldn't have occurred to her that her characters could be gay. So I think it's something like that we're dealing with in HP as well. ;D
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but you have years of slashy readings behind you, whereas JKR probably has none.
Presumably has none. I would be very very surprised if she doesn't know about the existence of H/D and Snarry fandom, at least :P Though I don't disagree Rowling was likely unaware of how her Draco arc came off to some of the corrupt minds *g*
I very much want to read your friend's oh-so-gay detective story, can it be arranged ;-P?
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Basically, when I was a child, there were these books I adored, about a super-pretty, super-gifted and super-kind girl orphan who worked at a crofter's holding, until one day she found out she was the long-lost grand daughter to the rich nobel man in town, and became a fine lady instead. I loved these books that at nine, I tried to write a story just like it. Only, it couldn't be exactly the same, so I change some details, like the names of the girl, made her a brunette instead of a blonde, made the rich noble man younger, and father of three small children. Oh, and she wasn't at all related to the rich guy. Instead, he saw what a good worker she was, and bought her from the crofter, for 15 crowns. So that she could become the... erhm... nanny for his three small children. The girl, incidently, turned out to be such a great nanny, that one day rich noble dude took her aside, and announced that she didn't have to work anymore, she was to become his heir instead. Yeah. He had three children, and yet would let his supergood nanny ineherit his enitre fortune. You wonder what, exactly, she was so good at. But then again, maybe we just don't want to know. ;D
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So was this your very first piece of fiction? How long was it?
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No, it wasn't the first, though possibly the firsat written with my own hands. When I was younger, I let my mum or my sister write while I dictated, because I was too lazy to actually write stuff down. ;-) It was three "books", only one book contained about seven pages, and most of the space of those pages were drawings. So heh, not very long. :D
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I personally see it as an ode to pedophilia, but you shouldn't trust my judgment. My subconscious is too twisted. :P
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That cracked me up. The editor should come join fandom, she'd fit right in - OMG how dare u say anybody can do ANYTHING better than Harry?
Or else she's just used to the Sueification of the Gryffindors. Maybe she has fun with it: 'Jo, have you thought about mentioning how Albus' robes are shiny? Has it really been clearly expressed exactly how pretty Ginny is? And I'd really like it if you added a line or two on Harry's bravery/sudden good looks/DADA skills/Quidditch playing, please.'
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I love that Rowling (had to have?) explained Harry's incompetence in a positive light too. But I was happy she decided to keep Draco's one advantage (apart from creative badge-making) over Harry despite the editor's uncertainty about it.
Haha maybe we've all encountered that particular editor under disguise in fandom already!!!
Reply
Plus, that's kind of worse - Draco's purposely shutting down his compassion? So what's Harry's (and Fred, and George, and Ginny *lists characters for hours*) excuse, then? He just doesn't feel it at all?
Reply
All the more fodder for secretly-good-and-angsty!Draco, come to think of it, er.
So what's Harry's (and Fred, and George, and Ginny *lists characters for hours*) excuse, then? He just doesn't feel it at all?
You mean you've missed all the glorious moments when our Gryff folks were putting their good qualities to display? Clearly this series is not for you. You are just bent on hero-hating, you are :P
Seriously though, Rowling's comment can logically be taken as: What you see of Harry's good qualities are what you get, while Draco really is a better person than he lets on, ha! Though I am not sure she really intended to mean it that way...
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That had better be a spoiler for Book Seven ;)
Heh, reminds me of JKR's 'Ginny's compassionate'. Um...when?
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