And then of COURSE he got melodramatically shot and bled all over her and she had to be All About Sam and abandon Lee again. There's only two ways this will end: 1) he dies the martyr's death I predicted and Kara never gets over it or 2) he recovers slowly and they get back together and work through things. Either way, there goes my Kara again... Makes a farce of the kiss and Kara/Lee team stuff last week. She just wished he was Sam, let's face it.I think you're overreacting here Bop
( ... )
Oh, I can see I've caused some confusion. My issue is not with Kara's compassion for a dying husband, but with the contrived writing that sees not only Lee toying with Dee again, but also Kara realising her True Love for Sam just before he (I'm assuming) dies. Yes, the two of them have been treated equally by the writers. But I find both instances of writing absolutely ridiculously contrived and MASSIVE copouts on the part of the writers. Oh, how convenient that Kara doesn't actually have to address any of the complex issues in her relationship with Sam (he's a Cylon, he lied to her, she doesn't know who SHE is). I am angry because I predicted this would happen and it renders any Lee/Kara anything from now on a complete joke to me. I'm angry at the writers, not at Kara.
I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.
You might not like it but you better accept
( ... )
Lee toying with Dee again, but also Kara realising her True Love for Sam just before he (I'm assuming) dies. Yes, the two of them have been treated equally by the writers. But I find both instances of writing absolutely ridiculously contrived and MASSIVE copouts on the part of the writers.You see, Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, it made sense, since Kara wasn’t there. His long lingering kiss seemed very odd though which was definitely the fault of bad writing. With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me, it all feels very real and in character imo. I didn’t feel any vibes of Big True Love between them at all in this episode, so those are just your assumptions based on what exactly? - I bet they’re based on previous experience with L/K but they’ve changed a lot Bop. They’ve grown up. I believe that Kara won’t end up with a huge guilt complex over Anders getting shot or dying; a lot of people had died, it’s stronger than her and
( ... )
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting. I probably am. I guess I need someone to slap me sometimes. I'm just so fed up and disappointed with the way the show cops out on the big issues and on the ships as well.
Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it hadn't been right after they found destroyed!Earth. There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me,You don't feel like they're trying to balance the scales? Lee got to have his Dee flirtation and then he died, now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no
( ... )
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting.
Yep, I care about you finding the show enjoyable at least to some extent. I’m very sorry you’re disappointed and I’m just sharing my positive perspective as I know that it might help slightly even if you don’t feel the way I do and don’t agree with me ;)
I’d had my highs and lows with BSG, there were moments of desperation for me similar to yours in the second half of S2 and in S3, so I understand the state of mind you're probably in. I’ll just continue to disagree with you and point you out the reasons why if you don’t mind.
There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.I see. But the way I perceive it is that Lee was also shocked with this revelation about Earth. His dad started drinking, Roslin completely shut out the external world around
( ... )
Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband.
She’s staying with him because he’s her husband and a fellow crewmate. All I’m saying is that she would’ve done the same thing for ANYone. Had it been Helo to get a bullet, she would’ve stayed with him all the same!
I am angry because I predicted this would happen and it renders any Lee/Kara anything from now on a complete joke to me. I'm angry at the writers, not at Kara.
Ok, we’ve established you’re not angry at Kara, that’s already something. :) You have every right to be angry at writers… just don’t make too many assumptions. What we saw with Kara and Sam in BOTS doesn’t pose any threat to L/K, it can’t even be called shippy, more importantly, it doesn’t diminish the strength of feelings and uniqueness of the bond between Lee and Kara, on the contrary, they’ve come to accept their feelings and be at peace with them. Every second of their shared screen time in S4 screamed of how very much in love our pilots (with a clear accent on Kara this time! finally!) are. She never laughed and smiled with Sam the way she did with Lee… and the beaming looks of adoration she was giving him in Six Of One and Revelations mean everything.
But I bet you there IS some epic soulmates aspect to Sam's death.I don’t think so. I just think that she’s somehow
( ... )
they’ve come to accept their feelings and be at peace with them. Every second of their shared screen time in S4 screamed of how very much in love our pilots (with a clear accent on Kara this time! finally!) are Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't agree at all. I wish I did! I really really wish I did! But I have never felt our pilots were further apart. Six of One was the last time I felt they were really 'together'. I got my hopes up in the last episode but saw more practical comradeness than shippiness (which is fine! at least that's something!) but every other moment on screen in S4? Has seemed really cold and distant to me. It felt like Kara deliberately pulled back from that moment of intimacy in Six of One.
Sam’s current condition and his revelations he’s about to spill may be those pushing circumstances. You obviously know stuff I don't. I haven't even seen the trailer, but I take it this is based on that? It sounds terrible. I don't think I want to see the next episode. But hey, I better just face up to it. I do think Kara needs to
( ... )
I got my hopes up in the last episode but saw more practical comradeness than shippiness (which is fine! at least that's something!) but every other moment on screen in S4? Has seemed really cold and distant to me. It felt like Kara deliberately pulled back from that moment of intimacy in Six of One.
He-he. Again, I don’t agree. She’s been very close with him in Revelations and SAGN… She was willing to tell him everything about finding her body on the surface. That is HUGE.
And in Revelations… oh my… just look at her shining face in Adama’s quarters, she’s beaming at Lee, flirting, calling him Mr. Prez, saying they’ll walk those halls together. She stands so close… she’s practically leaning into his body near the table - that’s how much she wants his proximity. She’s so in love and so openly it hurts to watch. But Lee’s too engulfed in his father’s absence and probable death, that’s why he comes across as a cold and distant one in this scene.
It’s such an irony that many Kara-fans find that Lee has been cold to Kara since Six of
( ... )
I think that was very clear to Kara. She promptly ran back to her husband. I think that's pretty crystal clear. No it wasn’t that clear to her unfortunately. She always has tremendous doubt; especially after all they’ve been through. We’re talking about pilots trying to be romantically involved here and Six of One scene isn’t enough to make moves in that direction, not for Lee just as not for Kara. And Lee’s still married to Dee and she to Sam… they’re too grown up now to attempt being close in a romantic sense of word before they deal with their marriages
( ... )
I really want to respond more thoroughly, but the gist of it is that your comments gave me cause to stop and (re)think my assumptions about Kara/Lee and Kara/Sam. I really have felt that the writers ditched K/L for K/S... but your heartfelt explanation of how you don't feel that's the case at all has made me question that. It is true that I tend to be so heavily in Lee's pov that I feel a lot of jealousy on his behalf. It doesn't help that I find Sam despicable
( ... )
It is true that I tend to be so heavily in Lee's pov that I feel a lot of jealousy on his behalf.
I know, my own peak point of jealousy was in the late S2 and then during the hiatus when I was so heartbroken I thought I’d never recover… I had serious doubts over Kara’s choices and her obsession with the rescue mission etc.
It doesn't help that I find Sam despicable.
When it comes to Sam, I can’t find a single character trait that I’d personally find worth genuine respect. I’ve always disliked him heavily. And don’t tell me he’s HOT… I think that’s the worst argument in favor of Sam’s character that this fandom has ever put forward. ;)
…now that I have the time, I find myself pretty unwilling to as I gather it's all about Sam.It’s not so much about Sam as it is about the cylons in general, Ellen, Cavil and the difference between skin jobs and FF; Sam’s just the cylon Ron picked to tell the 3000-year history in 45 minutes. There’s a rift between form and content in this episode imo
( ... )
I fear that if I watch it will undo what you've said here and I'll be back to thinking 'yeah, the writers think Kara/Sam is the OTP'.
Well, without spoiling you I can say that I had no problem with her being there comforting him. She does love and care about him, I’m at peace with that because it’s a very different kind of affection compared to the one she feels for Lee. I also find that there was nothing shippy about it and she was very guilty and a bit selfish when it came to the info she was personally interested in too. Very typical Kara. Maybe the only difference is that she never tended to speak about her guilt out loud before she died; now she does, but the screen time she shared with Sam in this episode didn't feel like OMG Grand True Love Forever at all.
Also, no matter how hard it is for a Lee fan to realize she never showed such concern when Lee was shot, I must step aside from this bitterness and admit that speaking up her mind with Anders now is way much healthier than bottling up her guilt, acting like she doesn’t
( ... )
Reply
I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.
You might not like it but you better accept ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with,
I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it hadn't been right after they found destroyed!Earth. There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me,You don't feel like they're trying to balance the scales? Lee got to have his Dee flirtation and then he died, now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no ( ... )
Reply
Yep, I care about you finding the show enjoyable at least to some extent. I’m very sorry you’re disappointed and I’m just sharing my positive perspective as I know that it might help slightly even if you don’t feel the way I do and don’t agree with me ;)
I’d had my highs and lows with BSG, there were moments of desperation for me similar to yours in the second half of S2 and in S3, so I understand the state of mind you're probably in. I’ll just continue to disagree with you and point you out the reasons why if you don’t mind.
There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.I see. But the way I perceive it is that Lee was also shocked with this revelation about Earth. His dad started drinking, Roslin completely shut out the external world around ( ... )
Reply
She’s staying with him because he’s her husband and a fellow crewmate. All I’m saying is that she would’ve done the same thing for ANYone. Had it been Helo to get a bullet, she would’ve stayed with him all the same!
Reply
Ok, we’ve established you’re not angry at Kara, that’s already something. :) You have every right to be angry at writers… just don’t make too many assumptions. What we saw with Kara and Sam in BOTS doesn’t pose any threat to L/K, it can’t even be called shippy, more importantly, it doesn’t diminish the strength of feelings and uniqueness of the bond between Lee and Kara, on the contrary, they’ve come to accept their feelings and be at peace with them. Every second of their shared screen time in S4 screamed of how very much in love our pilots (with a clear accent on Kara this time! finally!) are. She never laughed and smiled with Sam the way she did with Lee… and the beaming looks of adoration she was giving him in Six Of One and Revelations mean everything.
But I bet you there IS some epic soulmates aspect to Sam's death.I don’t think so. I just think that she’s somehow ( ... )
Reply
Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't agree at all. I wish I did! I really really wish I did! But I have never felt our pilots were further apart. Six of One was the last time I felt they were really 'together'. I got my hopes up in the last episode but saw more practical comradeness than shippiness (which is fine! at least that's something!) but every other moment on screen in S4? Has seemed really cold and distant to me. It felt like Kara deliberately pulled back from that moment of intimacy in Six of One.
Sam’s current condition and his revelations he’s about to spill may be those pushing circumstances. You obviously know stuff I don't. I haven't even seen the trailer, but I take it this is based on that? It sounds terrible. I don't think I want to see the next episode. But hey, I better just face up to it. I do think Kara needs to ( ... )
Reply
He-he. Again, I don’t agree. She’s been very close with him in Revelations and SAGN… She was willing to tell him everything about finding her body on the surface. That is HUGE.
And in Revelations… oh my… just look at her shining face in Adama’s quarters, she’s beaming at Lee, flirting, calling him Mr. Prez, saying they’ll walk those halls together. She stands so close… she’s practically leaning into his body near the table - that’s how much she wants his proximity. She’s so in love and so openly it hurts to watch. But Lee’s too engulfed in his father’s absence and probable death, that’s why he comes across as a cold and distant one in this scene.
It’s such an irony that many Kara-fans find that Lee has been cold to Kara since Six of ( ... )
Reply
I think that was very clear to Kara. She promptly ran back to her husband. I think that's pretty crystal clear. No it wasn’t that clear to her unfortunately. She always has tremendous doubt; especially after all they’ve been through. We’re talking about pilots trying to be romantically involved here and Six of One scene isn’t enough to make moves in that direction, not for Lee just as not for Kara. And Lee’s still married to Dee and she to Sam… they’re too grown up now to attempt being close in a romantic sense of word before they deal with their marriages ( ... )
Reply
Reply
I know, my own peak point of jealousy was in the late S2 and then during the hiatus when I was so heartbroken I thought I’d never recover… I had serious doubts over Kara’s choices and her obsession with the rescue mission etc.
It doesn't help that I find Sam despicable.
When it comes to Sam, I can’t find a single character trait that I’d personally find worth genuine respect. I’ve always disliked him heavily. And don’t tell me he’s HOT… I think that’s the worst argument in favor of Sam’s character that this fandom has ever put forward. ;)
…now that I have the time, I find myself pretty unwilling to as I gather it's all about Sam.It’s not so much about Sam as it is about the cylons in general, Ellen, Cavil and the difference between skin jobs and FF; Sam’s just the cylon Ron picked to tell the 3000-year history in 45 minutes. There’s a rift between form and content in this episode imo ( ... )
Reply
Well, without spoiling you I can say that I had no problem with her being there comforting him. She does love and care about him, I’m at peace with that because it’s a very different kind of affection compared to the one she feels for Lee. I also find that there was nothing shippy about it and she was very guilty and a bit selfish when it came to the info she was personally interested in too. Very typical Kara. Maybe the only difference is that she never tended to speak about her guilt out loud before she died; now she does, but the screen time she shared with Sam in this episode didn't feel like OMG Grand True Love Forever at all.
Also, no matter how hard it is for a Lee fan to realize she never showed such concern when Lee was shot, I must step aside from this bitterness and admit that speaking up her mind with Anders now is way much healthier than bottling up her guilt, acting like she doesn’t ( ... )
Reply
Leave a comment