Lee toying with Dee again, but also Kara realising her True Love for Sam just before he (I'm assuming) dies. Yes, the two of them have been treated equally by the writers. But I find both instances of writing absolutely ridiculously contrived and MASSIVE copouts on the part of the writers.
You see, Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, it made sense, since Kara wasn’t there. His long lingering kiss seemed very odd though which was definitely the fault of bad writing. With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me, it all feels very real and in character imo. I didn’t feel any vibes of Big True Love between them at all in this episode, so those are just your assumptions based on what exactly? - I bet they’re based on previous experience with L/K but they’ve changed a lot Bop. They’ve grown up. I believe that Kara won’t end up with a huge guilt complex over Anders getting shot or dying; a lot of people had died, it’s stronger than her and frankly she has many issues to think about besides her role in his probable death. There’s been enough of Scar and Act of Contrition.
I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.
He can always count on her… this moment was all about her counting on him to complete what they’ve started TOGETHER and his gratitude for pushing him further and understanding that she has to stay. You see, I perceive this moment differently, it actually reminds me of Razor in some gut wrenching ways. To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to and reminding Lee about the mission at hand thus sacrificing her own strong desire and need to have him by her side helping her. She gets his first urge to stay with her, she want him too… as much as he wants to stay. But. What Lee sees reflected in her eyes is that desperation to get him going and her furious demand not to get all chivalrous with her now, NOT TO FORGET about the mission because of her and GET HIS FATHER and then return control over the ship; Lee sees it and he is grateful to her for reminding him who he has to be, for bringing the strongest side of him to the surface *again* (because for a moment he was “selfishly” all about himself and Kara) although it breaks his heart to leave her there undefended.
Oh pilots!
Their whole team work in the last two episodes is pure Love… How Kara kills for him, saves him, clears his overthinking head with that kiss and reassures him they can do it together just him and her, Starbuck and Apollo, how he quickly finds focus she gives him, turns into Apollo… how they feel every step and movement of each other like ONE… like in good old days… and he patiently awaits for her to hand him the gun belt *lol*, how Lee in turn sais they can take all six guards by themselves when she doesn’t believe it’s possible and then shines in his brilliant grenade trick which takes her aback… So very them! I love this dance based on instinct and deep innate connection they share.
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting. I probably am. I guess I need someone to slap me sometimes. I'm just so fed up and disappointed with the way the show cops out on the big issues and on the ships as well.
Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it hadn't been right after they found destroyed!Earth. There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me, You don't feel like they're trying to balance the scales? Lee got to have his Dee flirtation and then he died, now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?
Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from, I don't really see why you feel there's space for optimism. Kara's stuck by Sam, even after she got back. She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.
To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to Ugh. I just can't agree there. Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband. Secondly, as a fellow soldier, Sam has never been treated 'equally' by Kara. After he shot Gaeta did he get disciplined? no, he got to go on an away mission with her. She favours him the same way she used to favour Zak. She's not objective here at all. And that doesn't mean she's a terrible person, it's normal to feel this way, I imagine. But I can't view her actions as those of a 'good officer'.
I'm really impressed with how moved you were by this scene. I feel like I should watch it again and try to see it through your eyes. I really didn't see what you are talking about at all. I did see Lee trying to be honourable and do the right thing--and I believe he had genuine compassion for Sam, who I know he respects (foolishly!).
I wish I could still be in the raptures you're in.
I must thank you for taking the time to write these comments. I am actually very moved. Very few people care enough to argue with me about BSG these days, and I appreciate you doing so when you think I'm overreacting.
Yep, I care about you finding the show enjoyable at least to some extent. I’m very sorry you’re disappointed and I’m just sharing my positive perspective as I know that it might help slightly even if you don’t feel the way I do and don’t agree with me ;)
I’d had my highs and lows with BSG, there were moments of desperation for me similar to yours in the second half of S2 and in S3, so I understand the state of mind you're probably in. I’ll just continue to disagree with you and point you out the reasons why if you don’t mind.
There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
I see. But the way I perceive it is that Lee was also shocked with this revelation about Earth. His dad started drinking, Roslin completely shut out the external world around her… There’s a moment when you can’t react, you can’t make further decisions or deal with those big issues at hand, you have to just come out of that state of numbness and utter disbelief and I think Lee’s coping mechanism here was this need to talk to someone close enough that had to be satiated. Dee was that someone, because there wasn’t any other person available at that moment and she’s technically his wife and they’ve come a long way together. It made sense to me up until the point when he kissed her, which was Moore’s stupid manner to reinforce the drama of her suicide.
now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?
Sure it’s not a coincidence, Lee and Kara have to deal with their spouses before they can even attempt to give each other another chance - and I’m sure this is where it’s coming. Of course it’s a trite move to make a spouse take a bullet and have Kara sit beside his bed. I’m not saying I like it. But I believe that the mortal danger Sam’s in is the only way for her to start addressing the problems that she’s been avoiding to face out of confusion and fear.
Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from
Oh I see it, Bop. I could focus on all the worrying aspects as well if I wanted too. But all in all, I just see this differently and I’m not trying to make you change your mind, I’m merely sharing my standpoint.
She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.
I disagree completely. She’s been avoiding him since her return! Yes she’s married to him, she didn’t exactly have time to ‘unmarry’ him with her visions and obsession about Earth, did she? She slept with him only because he kept pushing and that was a totally ugly… old-Kara behavior under huge stress when she was about to lose her frakking mind. But don’t turn a blind eye to the fact that she told him their marriage had been a joke, an attempt for her to escape since day one! That’s a huge admission for Kara and that’s what really matters. As for standing with him when they found Earth, Bop… this is absolutely jealous Lee talking in you! :)) Just try to come out of Lee’s perspective of hurt pride and heart and see the real picture. She didn’t CHOOSE to stand with Anders, she chose to have a quiet moment alone and come to the memorial hall and stand with Kat… or the memory of Kat and all those people she knew that gave their lives for the dream of Earth that Kara thought humans were about to see coming true. It was like a quiet prayer… a few minutes to honor their memory and their sacrifice, a very private moment… And Sam approached from behind and invaded that private space for a hundredth time because he doesn’t seem to get that Kara Thrace is done with him. Just rewatch it! The expression on her face changes when she notices him by her left side, she doesn’t look at him, her body tenses and she clenches her jaw.
Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband.
She’s staying with him because he’s her husband and a fellow crewmate. All I’m saying is that she would’ve done the same thing for ANYone. Had it been Helo to get a bullet, she would’ve stayed with him all the same!
You see, Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with, it made sense, since Kara wasn’t there. His long lingering kiss seemed very odd though which was definitely the fault of bad writing. With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me, it all feels very real and in character imo. I didn’t feel any vibes of Big True Love between them at all in this episode, so those are just your assumptions based on what exactly? - I bet they’re based on previous experience with L/K but they’ve changed a lot Bop. They’ve grown up. I believe that Kara won’t end up with a huge guilt complex over Anders getting shot or dying; a lot of people had died, it’s stronger than her and frankly she has many issues to think about besides her role in his probable death. There’s been enough of Scar and Act of Contrition.
I have to admit I did miss the moment of 'pure understanding' that you spoke of. It felt more like Lee realising he couldn't count on Kara to me, but completely understanding why because she needed to be with her husband.
He can always count on her… this moment was all about her counting on him to complete what they’ve started TOGETHER and his gratitude for pushing him further and understanding that she has to stay.
You see, I perceive this moment differently, it actually reminds me of Razor in some gut wrenching ways. To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to and reminding Lee about the mission at hand thus sacrificing her own strong desire and need to have him by her side helping her. She gets his first urge to stay with her, she want him too… as much as he wants to stay. But. What Lee sees reflected in her eyes is that desperation to get him going and her furious demand not to get all chivalrous with her now, NOT TO FORGET about the mission because of her and GET HIS FATHER and then return control over the ship; Lee sees it and he is grateful to her for reminding him who he has to be, for bringing the strongest side of him to the surface *again* (because for a moment he was “selfishly” all about himself and Kara) although it breaks his heart to leave her there undefended.
Oh pilots!
Their whole team work in the last two episodes is pure Love… How Kara kills for him, saves him, clears his overthinking head with that kiss and reassures him they can do it together just him and her, Starbuck and Apollo, how he quickly finds focus she gives him, turns into Apollo… how they feel every step and movement of each other like ONE… like in good old days… and he patiently awaits for her to hand him the gun belt *lol*, how Lee in turn sais they can take all six guards by themselves when she doesn’t believe it’s possible and then shines in his brilliant grenade trick which takes her aback… So very them! I love this dance based on instinct and deep innate connection they share.
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Lee just having a drink with Dee I had no problem with,
I wouldn't have had so much of a problem with it if it hadn't been right after they found destroyed!Earth. There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
With Sam getting shot in the middle of a mutiny and Kara having to stay with him there’s no oddness or contrived writing to me,
You don't feel like they're trying to balance the scales? Lee got to have his Dee flirtation and then he died, now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?
Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from, I don't really see why you feel there's space for optimism. Kara's stuck by Sam, even after she got back. She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.
To me it showed Kara acting like an officer in the truest sense of word staying with a wounded comrade whom she cares about and stays loyal to
Ugh. I just can't agree there. Firstly, she's not staying with Sam because he's a comrade, she's staying with him because he's her husband. Secondly, as a fellow soldier, Sam has never been treated 'equally' by Kara. After he shot Gaeta did he get disciplined? no, he got to go on an away mission with her. She favours him the same way she used to favour Zak. She's not objective here at all. And that doesn't mean she's a terrible person, it's normal to feel this way, I imagine. But I can't view her actions as those of a 'good officer'.
I'm really impressed with how moved you were by this scene. I feel like I should watch it again and try to see it through your eyes. I really didn't see what you are talking about at all. I did see Lee trying to be honourable and do the right thing--and I believe he had genuine compassion for Sam, who I know he respects (foolishly!).
I wish I could still be in the raptures you're in.
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Yep, I care about you finding the show enjoyable at least to some extent. I’m very sorry you’re disappointed and I’m just sharing my positive perspective as I know that it might help slightly even if you don’t feel the way I do and don’t agree with me ;)
I’d had my highs and lows with BSG, there were moments of desperation for me similar to yours in the second half of S2 and in S3, so I understand the state of mind you're probably in. I’ll just continue to disagree with you and point you out the reasons why if you don’t mind.
There were so many big issues right then! I found it absurd that ANYone's reaction was to go for a semi-romantic drink.
I see. But the way I perceive it is that Lee was also shocked with this revelation about Earth. His dad started drinking, Roslin completely shut out the external world around her… There’s a moment when you can’t react, you can’t make further decisions or deal with those big issues at hand, you have to just come out of that state of numbness and utter disbelief and I think Lee’s coping mechanism here was this need to talk to someone close enough that had to be satiated. Dee was that someone, because there wasn’t any other person available at that moment and she’s technically his wife and they’ve come a long way together. It made sense to me up until the point when he kissed her, which was Moore’s stupid manner to reinforce the drama of her suicide.
now here's the other alternaship onscreen with the spouse endangered... bit coincidental? no?
Sure it’s not a coincidence, Lee and Kara have to deal with their spouses before they can even attempt to give each other another chance - and I’m sure this is where it’s coming. Of course it’s a trite move to make a spouse take a bullet and have Kara sit beside his bed. I’m not saying I like it. But I believe that the mortal danger Sam’s in is the only way for her to start addressing the problems that she’s been avoiding to face out of confusion and fear.
Like you don't see where I'm getting my perspective from
Oh I see it, Bop. I could focus on all the worrying aspects as well if I wanted too. But all in all, I just see this differently and I’m not trying to make you change your mind, I’m merely sharing my standpoint.
She's still married to him, she sleeps with him, she stood with him when they found Earth... I think she loves him, deeply, completely. Otherwise we would have seen her avoid him.
I disagree completely. She’s been avoiding him since her return!
Yes she’s married to him, she didn’t exactly have time to ‘unmarry’ him with her visions and obsession about Earth, did she? She slept with him only because he kept pushing and that was a totally ugly… old-Kara behavior under huge stress when she was about to lose her frakking mind. But don’t turn a blind eye to the fact that she told him their marriage had been a joke, an attempt for her to escape since day one! That’s a huge admission for Kara and that’s what really matters. As for standing with him when they found Earth, Bop… this is absolutely jealous Lee talking in you! :)) Just try to come out of Lee’s perspective of hurt pride and heart and see the real picture. She didn’t CHOOSE to stand with Anders, she chose to have a quiet moment alone and come to the memorial hall and stand with Kat… or the memory of Kat and all those people she knew that gave their lives for the dream of Earth that Kara thought humans were about to see coming true. It was like a quiet prayer… a few minutes to honor their memory and their sacrifice, a very private moment… And Sam approached from behind and invaded that private space for a hundredth time because he doesn’t seem to get that Kara Thrace is done with him. Just rewatch it! The expression on her face changes when she notices him by her left side, she doesn’t look at him, her body tenses and she clenches her jaw.
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She’s staying with him because he’s her husband and a fellow crewmate. All I’m saying is that she would’ve done the same thing for ANYone. Had it been Helo to get a bullet, she would’ve stayed with him all the same!
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