I've had some health issues in the last couple of months, and am currently in recuperation mode after an operation. So I've been catching up on some QAF reading
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Hi Wren we have spoken at length about QAF over the years and I agree with everything you have said in relation to this scene. One of my annoying scenes is In season 5 so you know already a problem but the scene where Brian comes to Michael and Bens and emotionally bleeds his love and pain about Justin and Justin stands and listens at the top of the stairs. I know the idea is Brian is supposed to be breaking down his walls but he was hurting so much. Michael and Justin both knew how private Brian is about his ‘feelings’ and they just stood there. Michael we know is hopeless and he argued back at Brian insulting him and being all self righteous about marriage and not listening to Brian’s pain. He was supposed to be Brian’s ‘longest best friend’he should have listened and not made it about him
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Thanks, C. I know just what you mean about that S5 scene. I could hardly watch it the first time and haven't seen it since. Even when I was re-watching S5 to do the "Reverb" adaptation, I skipped that one. There are three things for which I will never forgive the relevant characters - one was Lindsay's "too late" line in S5 when she tells Brian that he had his chances to be a father to Gus, but it's too late now because she's taking his son to Toronto; one was Debbie's slap in S4 - she knows better than anyone what his childhood was like and to physically assault him in that way really was, IMO, simply unpardonable; and the third, of course, was Michael's "who would?" line in the scene you talked about. And people still class Brian as "the asshole". Seriously. Any one of his friends could give him lessons, because they all considerably outstrip him. And none of the three ever apologise, or even recognise that they've done anything wrong. And as for Justin in that scene ... yes, well ... . As I've said before, one of the
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Yes. I just put Mel down as an irrational shrew. But Lindsay is supposed to be the one who really cares about Brian. And to be some kind of "earth mother" figure into the bargain. She falls a long, long way short in both roles.
I agree with every single thing you said. I would address the Munchers and their actions during this particular story arc, but Honeyyyyy... this post would end up as much content as you would find in an encyclopedia if I tried that! So let me address your Justin comments, since while somewhat long, is still going to be a far more condensed version that I could make for Lindsay and Melanie's idiocy
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Oh, I so agree with all of this. Debbie ... she has her moments, but she has as many really bad ones as she does good. And this is an example. What possible difference could it make to Mel and Linds if Justin was at their wedding or not? It's not like he was a close friend of theirs - he's just a kid that they enjoy patronising. (And seriously, every time I read one of Randy's comments about how Brian patronised Justin I want to scream at him "Are you kidding? Compared to how every woman in the show behaved towards him, Brian treated him with extraordinary respect
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One thing Gale does is to play AGAINST the script, which gives what he says so much more ambiguity and complexity.
And as Gale has said, it was frustrating to him that for every movement Brian made towards maturity, he was dragged back by some ridiculous plot twist (see the whole syphilis thing -- Brian, the poster boy for condom use, gets a disease that can't penetrate a condom) that seems invented to bring him back to square one.
It could also have been true of Michael. He *should* have been the 'everyman.' Almost everyone has experienced the pain of unrequited love, and many of us with a close friend. We *should* have felt empathy for Mikey. We *should* have gone through that painful journey of letting go with him. We *should* have rejoiced when he finally found real love with Ben.
But, for me at least, none of that happened. And I lay that almost entirely on Hal. He chose to portray Michael as a whiny, immature, petulant brat. It didn't have to be that way.
I adore your rants about the show and especially the writers. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I couldn't stand the munchers from the word go. That first scene in the hospital had me bristling over Mel, and Lindsay's manipulative nature seemed blatantly obvious to me.
As for Justin's part in the scene you're referencing, I agree with you for the most part. I think, however, that Justin's age at that point plays a factor. Yes he's incredibly mature for his age, but I think he's still susceptible to the immediacy of the moment thought processes typical of teenagers. I'm not sure Justin believed his decision would really have any emotional impact on Brian. For all his 'I'm onto you' talk, there's a lot of it that was just teenage bluster.
Now in later seasons? Whole other ball of wax. Other than the Brian/Ted friendship, I completely ignore season 4 & 5's existence.
In thinking about this further, you also really hit the nail on the head regarding Gale. His nonverbal acting ability really brought a depth to Brian that the writing alone doesn't actually support. Gale gave us a complex, three dimensional character that invaded the hearts and minds of so many of us. Randy did as well, with both of them somehow overcoming some truly awful writing. It's why this fandom is still healthy after so long. Most taper off pretty quickly.
I think perhaps Cowlip wanted that same depth for Mikey. The problem is that Hal lacked the acting chops to pull it off. He couldn't bring the character further than the writing.
Aaaaaahhh... *lightbulb moment*THAT'S why I can't stand S4 and S5!!!! Everything just seemed off with the characters but I could never really put my finger on it, other than episode after episode rubbed me the wrong way and I would end up extremely irritated. I think I only watched both seasons about 5 times? Whereas I almost wore out my S1 to S3 DVDs!
I had a brilliant plot bunny for the white party, though. Had it all researched, but alas... then my muse decided to move on. :(
Oh, S4 is terrible. And S5 is worse. You only have to think about that horrible scene in 501 where Brian stands on the catwalk at Babylon, proclaiming to the whole world how much he enjoys being a cocksucker. Seriously! When would Brian ever do such a thing? He doesn't give a fuck what the straights think of him. But C/L wanted to say some stuff and needed a mouthpiece so 4 seasons of character development just went out the window to give them that little grandstand moment.
Terrible!
Curious now about the White Party. It's irritating when that happens, isn't it? I have an unfinished Quoin fic where I'd done hours of research on Liverpool street layouts and colleges and all sorts of stuff and then the muse just deserted me. Oh, well. I still have all that stuff on file if the muse for that story ever revisits.
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I just cannot…
I used to think I hated Mel the most, but over the years my anger at
Lindsay has ramped up and she infuriates me for so many reasons!
Debbie… don't get me started!!!!
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what he says so much more ambiguity and complexity.
And as Gale has said, it was frustrating to him that for every
movement Brian made towards maturity, he was dragged back
by some ridiculous plot twist (see the whole syphilis thing --
Brian, the poster boy for condom use, gets a disease that
can't penetrate a condom) that seems invented to bring him
back to square one.
Reply
It could also have been true of Michael. He *should* have been the 'everyman.' Almost everyone has experienced the pain of unrequited love, and many of us with a close friend. We *should* have felt empathy for Mikey. We *should* have gone through that painful journey of letting go with him. We *should* have rejoiced when he finally found real love with Ben.
But, for me at least, none of that happened. And I lay that almost entirely on Hal. He chose to portray Michael as a whiny, immature, petulant brat. It didn't have to be that way.
Reply
As for Justin's part in the scene you're referencing, I agree with you for the most part. I think, however, that Justin's age at that point plays a factor. Yes he's incredibly mature for his age, but I think he's still susceptible to the immediacy of the moment thought processes typical of teenagers. I'm not sure Justin believed his decision would really have any emotional impact on Brian. For all his 'I'm onto you' talk, there's a lot of it that was just teenage bluster.
Now in later seasons? Whole other ball of wax. Other than the Brian/Ted friendship, I completely ignore season 4 & 5's existence.
Reply
I think perhaps Cowlip wanted that same depth for Mikey. The problem is that Hal lacked the acting chops to pull it off. He couldn't bring the character further than the writing.
Reply
Aaaaaahhh... *lightbulb moment*THAT'S why I can't stand S4 and S5!!!! Everything just seemed off with the characters but I could never really put my finger on it, other than episode after episode rubbed me the wrong way and I would end up extremely irritated. I think I only watched both seasons about 5 times? Whereas I almost wore out my S1 to S3 DVDs!
I had a brilliant plot bunny for the white party, though. Had it all researched, but alas... then my muse decided to move on. :(
Fuck, I miss writing. :(
Reply
Terrible!
Curious now about the White Party. It's irritating when that happens, isn't it? I have an unfinished Quoin fic where I'd done hours of research on Liverpool street layouts and colleges and all sorts of stuff and then the muse just deserted me. Oh, well. I still have all that stuff on file if the muse for that story ever revisits.
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