This is going to be a bit difficult without having the original Japanese to go off of, but we're going to try!
Chapter 126: I want to say there must have been something in the Japanese that led us to using "my house," but whether there was or not, one of the main themes of Fruits Basket is kids' connections to their parents, so it seems perfectly reasonable that Kyo would think of the house he lived in with his mom as his house.
As for the translation difference involving whom Kyo's mother gave up on, our guess would be that the original used the word "jibun." "Jibun" means self and is usually (according to our experience) used in reference to the subject's self (in this case, Kyo's mother) rather than the speaker's self, unless the speaker is talking about himself or herself, or unless the speaker happens to use "jibun" to mean "I," like Haruhi in Host Club. Kyo uses "ore," though, so that's not the issue. It's all a context thing. We remember puzzling over who "jibun" actually was, but we don't remember what led to the final
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You guys are awesome. As always, your memories amaze me, and it makes me really happy that you're willing to talk about this. ^_^ (And not hate me.) I know you always put a lot of thought into your choices.
Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Is that all? I always picture you making faces. (Actually, I assume you make faces every time I do a post like this, not just when I keep score, and are too polite to say so. ^_-)
"Boku yori zutto kirei dakara."
Oh good, I broke the words up properly. ^^ They all looked familiar, but I wasn't sure if I was assembling them into anything like the right meaning. (Well, "kirei dakara" made sense on its own, but my Japanese is so limited that I don't trust the part of the sentence I can't read not to completely change the meaning on me
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Okay, yeah, we actually do make faces, but it depends on our mood. If we don't have anything else to do, we'll probably start ranting about love vs. like to each other, but y'know, it's nothing major
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Okay, yeah, we actually do make faces, but it depends on our mood.
That seems only fair. ^^ (For the record, although I keep noting the "suki" thing, it's only really bothered me in vol. 14. As you let me hash out at length. ^^;)
I think I'm just inclined towards "beautiful" because it has more flexible connotations--it may be an entirely personal thing, but when I hear "pretty" I immediately assume it refers to physical attractiveness. (On the flip side, I can read "ugly" as either physical or emotional when it's applied to a person.) And as I'm typing I remember that I tend to think of Tohru as, if not plain, then as very ordinary compared to the Sohmas. I definitely agree with your take on Akito's reason for calling her ugly.
I've always read that last conversation to/with Yuki as "you're the last to be freed", as God takes the Rat spirit away. Except that now I'm not sure why God or the Rat would thank Yuki for keeping the promise, but the "goodbye" has to be directed at him... Oh, so confusing
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I'm still uncomfortable that Arisa and Saki apparently bond with Akito so easily...
I actually am as well. I remember sort of dreading the inevitable moment that they'd meet, because I was so sure that there was going to be animosity at some point. I was sort of relieved when they didn't, but then I was a little confused. I understand them being accepting of the transformed Akito, but Saki apparently felt comfortable enough to even tease Akito with a nickname. [Random: Akito reacts very differently to Saki's playful teasing than she does Shigure's. Then again, she's probably used to being on guard against Shigure's truthful cruelty, but maybe the difference between playful teasing and cruel taunting is one of those things she always sort-of knew.]
Oh, and I love that panel of Akito at the beginning of the chapter--the one that was covered up in the serialization. <3
...the between-chapters picture of Kazuma and Akito ganging up on Kyo's scumbag father just completely made my day.Oh
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Akito reacts very differently to Saki's playful teasing than she does Shigure's.
Yeah, I noticed that too. (It will never stop weirding me out. Saki, the Kazuma thing is bad enough!) I almost wonder if Akito just has no idea how to interpret or deal with that kind of thing without years of context. Shigure knows exactly how to yank her chain, and she can work out or intuit his motives... (It can't be that Akito assumes Saki has no reason to be malicious, because she clearly expects the girls to hate her. [And rightly so. *grumbles* Although I'm okay with them not hating her.])
Oh, and I love that panel of Akito at the beginning of the chapter--the one that was covered up in the serialization. <3
The one right at the bottom of the first page? It's lovely. ^_^
And Akito totally knows Kazuma could kick her ass--metaphorically, even if he wouldn't do it physically. *g*
I really don't think he's ever been afraid of her like the other Juunishi were.
That makes sense. I kind of get the sense that he spent so long believing she would do
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Whenever I get my hands on this particular volume, I'm going to soak up as much as I can, being the next to last and all. While i admit to not delving quite as deep as you guys I'll try to post my thoughts as coherently as I can.
Mainly just providing the Madman version of all the translation notes you mention, for another comparison. But I might have a comment or two on the content as well. ;)
Chapter 126
Interesting choice to have Kyo refer to his father's house as "my house". And, "calm as you please", his father says…
Madman also has "my house", and I think the other line you mention is, "How dare you set foot in this house, as if nothing had happened at all!" But that seems a bit distant in meaning, so maybe I've got the wrong line. I couldn't find anything that was closer to "calm as you please".
Kyo wishes his mom hadn't given up on herself, and Shadow's translation has him wishing she hadn't given up on him.
I like Madman's wording here: "I wish you hadn't died. I never wanted to give up. I wanted us to live…" (Perhaps I like it because I had the idea that the reason Kyo apparently witnessed her death, even though he was never before allowed outside, was because she originally meant to take him with her, sati-style, but changed her mind at the
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(I'll see if I can fit my reply to both comments in one comment. *g*)
Thanks for pulling out the comparisons! Let's see...
"How dare you set foot in this house, as if nothing had happened at all!" But that seems a bit distant in meaning, so maybe I've got the wrong line. I couldn't find anything that was closer to "calm as you please".
That's probably it. Last three panels on page 15 of the TP edition (pg. 9 in Japanese): "What do you want? And look at you. Calm as you please. How dare you?" His father's dialogue doesn't mention this house in this version.
For the record, the "like/love" issue doesn't usually bother me--I'm just hyper-aware of it after being so bothered in vol. 14 (which Alethea and Athena talked over with me much later, and they did convince me that "love" would've been inappropriate in one spot) and after having to work with it sometimes myself. Kyo's use of it there sounds fine to me.
Is that the part where the "a-whirl" line is supposed to be?Hmm, now that's odd. Both Shadow's translation and the official one
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The limiters reference made me think of Saiyuki, probably in much the same way. ^^
Yeah, I'd only ever heard it in Bleach, but I had an instinct it was more general than that. Glad to know I was right. Anyway, I thought it was a very appropriate caption. :D
Very significant translation difference: Shadow's translation has Akito saying she's jealous of Tohru because Tohru's "more beautiful at heart"; TP's says "You were so much prettier than me."
Madman: "Because you were so much more beautiful than me." (For the record, I agree with your assessment that "beautiful" seems to have more flexible connotations than "pretty", so I think I prefer Madman's version of this line.)
Kagura. ;_;
Yeah…I almost wonder if she's sort of the avatar of a lonely manga-ka…
I would really like to know whether God spoke to all of them, or only Yuki.
I think it was the god speaking, and that he was speaking to the rat at first: "So you're the last one? Thank you for keeping that promise from long ago." And the last benediction was for all of them: "Thank you and farewell." No real basis for that, just a gut feeling.
And even so, all of the spirits are together at the end. Hmm.I think that's the irony. The cat seemed to be trying to convey that they would all eventually be together in the
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Comments 18
Chapter 126:
I want to say there must have been something in the Japanese that led us to using "my house," but whether there was or not, one of the main themes of Fruits Basket is kids' connections to their parents, so it seems perfectly reasonable that Kyo would think of the house he lived in with his mom as his house.
As for the translation difference involving whom Kyo's mother gave up on, our guess would be that the original used the word "jibun." "Jibun" means self and is usually (according to our experience) used in reference to the subject's self (in this case, Kyo's mother) rather than the speaker's self, unless the speaker is talking about himself or herself, or unless the speaker happens to use "jibun" to mean "I," like Haruhi in Host Club. Kyo uses "ore," though, so that's not the issue. It's all a context thing. We remember puzzling over who "jibun" actually was, but we don't remember what led to the final ( ... )
Reply
Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Is that all? I always picture you making faces. (Actually, I assume you make faces every time I do a post like this, not just when I keep score, and are too polite to say so. ^_-)
"Boku yori zutto kirei dakara."
Oh good, I broke the words up properly. ^^ They all looked familiar, but I wasn't sure if I was assembling them into anything like the right meaning. (Well, "kirei dakara" made sense on its own, but my Japanese is so limited that I don't trust the part of the sentence I can't read not to completely change the meaning on me ( ... )
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That seems only fair. ^^ (For the record, although I keep noting the "suki" thing, it's only really bothered me in vol. 14. As you let me hash out at length. ^^;)
I think I'm just inclined towards "beautiful" because it has more flexible connotations--it may be an entirely personal thing, but when I hear "pretty" I immediately assume it refers to physical attractiveness. (On the flip side, I can read "ugly" as either physical or emotional when it's applied to a person.) And as I'm typing I remember that I tend to think of Tohru as, if not plain, then as very ordinary compared to the Sohmas. I definitely agree with your take on Akito's reason for calling her ugly.
I've always read that last conversation to/with Yuki as "you're the last to be freed", as God takes the Rat spirit away. Except that now I'm not sure why God or the Rat would thank Yuki for keeping the promise, but the "goodbye" has to be directed at him... Oh, so confusing ( ... )
Reply
I'm still uncomfortable that Arisa and Saki apparently bond with Akito so easily...
I actually am as well. I remember sort of dreading the inevitable moment that they'd meet, because I was so sure that there was going to be animosity at some point. I was sort of relieved when they didn't, but then I was a little confused. I understand them being accepting of the transformed Akito, but Saki apparently felt comfortable enough to even tease Akito with a nickname. [Random: Akito reacts very differently to Saki's playful teasing than she does Shigure's. Then again, she's probably used to being on guard against Shigure's truthful cruelty, but maybe the difference between playful teasing and cruel taunting is one of those things she always sort-of knew.]
Oh, and I love that panel of Akito at the beginning of the chapter--the one that was covered up in the serialization. <3
...the between-chapters picture of Kazuma and Akito ganging up on Kyo's scumbag father just completely made my day.Oh ( ... )
Reply
Yeah, I noticed that too. (It will never stop weirding me out. Saki, the Kazuma thing is bad enough!) I almost wonder if Akito just has no idea how to interpret or deal with that kind of thing without years of context. Shigure knows exactly how to yank her chain, and she can work out or intuit his motives... (It can't be that Akito assumes Saki has no reason to be malicious, because she clearly expects the girls to hate her. [And rightly so. *grumbles* Although I'm okay with them not hating her.])
Oh, and I love that panel of Akito at the beginning of the chapter--the one that was covered up in the serialization. <3
The one right at the bottom of the first page? It's lovely. ^_^
And Akito totally knows Kazuma could kick her ass--metaphorically, even if he wouldn't do it physically. *g*
I really don't think he's ever been afraid of her like the other Juunishi were.
That makes sense. I kind of get the sense that he spent so long believing she would do ( ... )
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Chapter 126
Interesting choice to have Kyo refer to his father's house as "my house". And, "calm as you please", his father says…
Madman also has "my house", and I think the other line you mention is, "How dare you set foot in this house, as if nothing had happened at all!" But that seems a bit distant in meaning, so maybe I've got the wrong line. I couldn't find anything that was closer to "calm as you please".
Kyo wishes his mom hadn't given up on herself, and Shadow's translation has him wishing she hadn't given up on him.
I like Madman's wording here: "I wish you hadn't died. I never wanted to give up. I wanted us to live…" (Perhaps I like it because I had the idea that the reason Kyo apparently witnessed her death, even though he was never before allowed outside, was because she originally meant to take him with her, sati-style, but changed her mind at the ( ... )
Reply
Thanks for pulling out the comparisons! Let's see...
"How dare you set foot in this house, as if nothing had happened at all!" But that seems a bit distant in meaning, so maybe I've got the wrong line. I couldn't find anything that was closer to "calm as you please".
That's probably it. Last three panels on page 15 of the TP edition (pg. 9 in Japanese): "What do you want? And look at you. Calm as you please. How dare you?" His father's dialogue doesn't mention this house in this version.
For the record, the "like/love" issue doesn't usually bother me--I'm just hyper-aware of it after being so bothered in vol. 14 (which Alethea and Athena talked over with me much later, and they did convince me that "love" would've been inappropriate in one spot) and after having to work with it sometimes myself. Kyo's use of it there sounds fine to me.
Is that the part where the "a-whirl" line is supposed to be?Hmm, now that's odd. Both Shadow's translation and the official one ( ... )
Reply
Yeah, I'd only ever heard it in Bleach, but I had an instinct it was more general than that. Glad to know I was right. Anyway, I thought it was a very appropriate caption. :D
Reply
Very significant translation difference: Shadow's translation has Akito saying she's jealous of Tohru because Tohru's "more beautiful at heart"; TP's says "You were so much prettier than me."
Madman: "Because you were so much more beautiful than me." (For the record, I agree with your assessment that "beautiful" seems to have more flexible connotations than "pretty", so I think I prefer Madman's version of this line.)
Kagura. ;_;
Yeah…I almost wonder if she's sort of the avatar of a lonely manga-ka…
I would really like to know whether God spoke to all of them, or only Yuki.
I think it was the god speaking, and that he was speaking to the rat at first: "So you're the last one? Thank you for keeping that promise from long ago." And the last benediction was for all of them: "Thank you and farewell." No real basis for that, just a gut feeling.
And even so, all of the spirits are together at the end. Hmm.I think that's the irony. The cat seemed to be trying to convey that they would all eventually be together in the ( ... )
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