This is going to be a bit difficult without having the original Japanese to go off of, but we're going to try!
Chapter 126: I want to say there must have been something in the Japanese that led us to using "my house," but whether there was or not, one of the main themes of Fruits Basket is kids' connections to their parents, so it seems perfectly reasonable that Kyo would think of the house he lived in with his mom as his house.
As for the translation difference involving whom Kyo's mother gave up on, our guess would be that the original used the word "jibun." "Jibun" means self and is usually (according to our experience) used in reference to the subject's self (in this case, Kyo's mother) rather than the speaker's self, unless the speaker is talking about himself or herself, or unless the speaker happens to use "jibun" to mean "I," like Haruhi in Host Club. Kyo uses "ore," though, so that's not the issue. It's all a context thing. We remember puzzling over who "jibun" actually was, but we don't remember what led to the final decision. Looking at our script, though, based on the context, he probably would have said "ore" if he meant himself. But again, it all depends on the context, and whether or not our understanding of Japanese is accurate.
Chapter 127: Our guess would be that Saki's powers don't make much more sense to Japanese readers, unless maybe they've played Sakura Wars. But Akito does seem genuinely repentant, and Saki is probably sensitive to that.
Chapter 129: Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Also, I believe part of the point is that he's not afraid of transforming in public anymore, hence nothing to be afraid of.
Chapter 130: "Boku yori zutto kirei dakara." Boku: I, yori: more than, zutto: much (in this case), kirei: pretty, dakara: because the previously stated sentence is the case. The "pretty at heart" seems to be an attempt at clarifying in what way Tohru is prettier, because "kirei" is a "clean" and "pure" kind of pretty, which, incidentally, we noted in the script. On the one hand, we'd say it's not that significant a difference, because "pretty" can be a reference to so many things about Tohru, but on the other hand, it's easy to take the wrong way.
Incidentally, it's our opinion that it was the Rat talking to Yuki, not God.
Chapter 131: Japanese students are taught very early on that the -ou verb ending means "let's [verb]" like "ikou" for "let's go" or "tabeyou" for "let's eat." But that's actually the second definition we get at our Japanese dictionary. The first is to express the speaker's intent. Basically it's the future tense, like, "I'm going to..." or "I think I'll..." or "I will..." or "I shall..."
In this case, it could be a "let's," since so many people are involved, but it seemed to us like God was the one performing the ritual, and so we decided that God was doing it independently. Like a king saying, "I'm going to make a law," as opposed to the same king saying, "Let's all make a law."
You guys are awesome. As always, your memories amaze me, and it makes me really happy that you're willing to talk about this. ^_^ (And not hate me.) I know you always put a lot of thought into your choices.
Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Is that all? I always picture you making faces. (Actually, I assume you make faces every time I do a post like this, not just when I keep score, and are too polite to say so. ^_-)
"Boku yori zutto kirei dakara."
Oh good, I broke the words up properly. ^^ They all looked familiar, but I wasn't sure if I was assembling them into anything like the right meaning. (Well, "kirei dakara" made sense on its own, but my Japanese is so limited that I don't trust the part of the sentence I can't read not to completely change the meaning on me.)
Of all the things that caught my attention, this was the only one that actually sounded a bit off to me, as opposed to just different--I followed the implicit meaning in the book just fine, but if it's read the other way it seems very strange. (Off the top of my head, I probably would've rewritten it to something like "you're a more beautiful person than I am".) I suspect that anyone who took it the wrong way would probably reread the line and get the meaning, though.
And now I'm trying to remember whether Akito originally called Tohru ugly in the manga (way back when she first visited the school) or if that was anime-only.
Incidentally, it's our opinion that it was the Rat talking to Yuki, not God.
I was wondering about that, but the main reason I came down on the "God talking" side is because of "You're the last". Although I suppose the Rat spirit might know that too...
(If it is the Rat, then I wonder if any of the other spirits spoke to the Sohmas as they were leaving.)
Okay, yeah, we actually do make faces, but it depends on our mood. If we don't have anything else to do, we'll probably start ranting about love vs. like to each other, but y'know, it's nothing major.
Akito did call Tohru ugly in the manga, something that I remembered after commenting and was all ready to point out if the occasion arose, because it's all the more reason "prettier" as a general term instead of "prettier at heart" works better. In her jealousy, Akito would be anxious to point out that Tohru is Not prettier than her in an attempt to negate her insecurities. That's just how crazy girls work (we've been known to act similarly ourselves, which is why any time we see criticism without any praise to go with it, our first guess is that whoever gave it is jealous).
And now that you mention it, it's possible that it started out as the Rat talking to Yuki, and then God stepped in. The "you're the last" line is debatable, because the Rat is not Yuki--the Rat is the Rat, and happens to live inside Yuki. Or so we were led to believe by the image of a rat talking to Yuki. So it's possible that now that the Rat is leaving, he refers to Yuki as "you." But then he might not know that Yuki was the last one to be released from the curse, but then again, he might have been saying, "You're the last one I'll possess."
Okay, yeah, we actually do make faces, but it depends on our mood.
That seems only fair. ^^ (For the record, although I keep noting the "suki" thing, it's only really bothered me in vol. 14. As you let me hash out at length. ^^;)
I think I'm just inclined towards "beautiful" because it has more flexible connotations--it may be an entirely personal thing, but when I hear "pretty" I immediately assume it refers to physical attractiveness. (On the flip side, I can read "ugly" as either physical or emotional when it's applied to a person.) And as I'm typing I remember that I tend to think of Tohru as, if not plain, then as very ordinary compared to the Sohmas. I definitely agree with your take on Akito's reason for calling her ugly.
I've always read that last conversation to/with Yuki as "you're the last to be freed", as God takes the Rat spirit away. Except that now I'm not sure why God or the Rat would thank Yuki for keeping the promise, but the "goodbye" has to be directed at him... Oh, so confusing.
Either way, I agree that the animal spirits are separate entities that have been sharing the 12shi's bodies all this time. (Yay for having a decisive opinion! ^^)
I pretty much stay away from these posts since it's been so long since I've looked at FB, and I don't really remember much of anything of what I was thinking back then. ^^; Still, that difference for ch 130 seemed a bit odd, so I checked back on my LJ. Apparently, I mentioned it, so my thoughts from back then are there. (The actual discussion happened in the comments.) FWIW, you and Ginny both agree on how to translate it (albeit almost three years apart). :P
Can't say as I blame you, really. ^^; (and I'd be astounded if you could remember--the Twins astonish me enough, and they've done it much more recently, plus I imagine it helps that reconstructing it is easier since they can bounce things off each other.)
Thanks for reminding me about that discussion! Wow, that takes me back.
Chapter 126:
I want to say there must have been something in the Japanese that led us to using "my house," but whether there was or not, one of the main themes of Fruits Basket is kids' connections to their parents, so it seems perfectly reasonable that Kyo would think of the house he lived in with his mom as his house.
As for the translation difference involving whom Kyo's mother gave up on, our guess would be that the original used the word "jibun." "Jibun" means self and is usually (according to our experience) used in reference to the subject's self (in this case, Kyo's mother) rather than the speaker's self, unless the speaker is talking about himself or herself, or unless the speaker happens to use "jibun" to mean "I," like Haruhi in Host Club. Kyo uses "ore," though, so that's not the issue. It's all a context thing. We remember puzzling over who "jibun" actually was, but we don't remember what led to the final decision. Looking at our script, though, based on the context, he probably would have said "ore" if he meant himself. But again, it all depends on the context, and whether or not our understanding of Japanese is accurate.
Chapter 127:
Our guess would be that Saki's powers don't make much more sense to Japanese readers, unless maybe they've played Sakura Wars. But Akito does seem genuinely repentant, and Saki is probably sensitive to that.
Chapter 129:
Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Also, I believe part of the point is that he's not afraid of transforming in public anymore, hence nothing to be afraid of.
Chapter 130:
"Boku yori zutto kirei dakara." Boku: I, yori: more than, zutto: much (in this case), kirei: pretty, dakara: because the previously stated sentence is the case. The "pretty at heart" seems to be an attempt at clarifying in what way Tohru is prettier, because "kirei" is a "clean" and "pure" kind of pretty, which, incidentally, we noted in the script. On the one hand, we'd say it's not that significant a difference, because "pretty" can be a reference to so many things about Tohru, but on the other hand, it's easy to take the wrong way.
Incidentally, it's our opinion that it was the Rat talking to Yuki, not God.
Chapter 131:
Japanese students are taught very early on that the -ou verb ending means "let's [verb]" like "ikou" for "let's go" or "tabeyou" for "let's eat." But that's actually the second definition we get at our Japanese dictionary. The first is to express the speaker's intent. Basically it's the future tense, like, "I'm going to..." or "I think I'll..." or "I will..." or "I shall..."
In this case, it could be a "let's," since so many people are involved, but it seemed to us like God was the one performing the ritual, and so we decided that God was doing it independently. Like a king saying, "I'm going to make a law," as opposed to the same king saying, "Let's all make a law."
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Re: Keeping score: And we roll our eyes every time you do it *grin*
Is that all? I always picture you making faces. (Actually, I assume you make faces every time I do a post like this, not just when I keep score, and are too polite to say so. ^_-)
"Boku yori zutto kirei dakara."
Oh good, I broke the words up properly. ^^ They all looked familiar, but I wasn't sure if I was assembling them into anything like the right meaning. (Well, "kirei dakara" made sense on its own, but my Japanese is so limited that I don't trust the part of the sentence I can't read not to completely change the meaning on me.)
Of all the things that caught my attention, this was the only one that actually sounded a bit off to me, as opposed to just different--I followed the implicit meaning in the book just fine, but if it's read the other way it seems very strange. (Off the top of my head, I probably would've rewritten it to something like "you're a more beautiful person than I am".) I suspect that anyone who took it the wrong way would probably reread the line and get the meaning, though.
And now I'm trying to remember whether Akito originally called Tohru ugly in the manga (way back when she first visited the school) or if that was anime-only.
Incidentally, it's our opinion that it was the Rat talking to Yuki, not God.
I was wondering about that, but the main reason I came down on the "God talking" side is because of "You're the last". Although I suppose the Rat spirit might know that too...
(If it is the Rat, then I wonder if any of the other spirits spoke to the Sohmas as they were leaving.)
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Akito did call Tohru ugly in the manga, something that I remembered after commenting and was all ready to point out if the occasion arose, because it's all the more reason "prettier" as a general term instead of "prettier at heart" works better. In her jealousy, Akito would be anxious to point out that Tohru is Not prettier than her in an attempt to negate her insecurities. That's just how crazy girls work (we've been known to act similarly ourselves, which is why any time we see criticism without any praise to go with it, our first guess is that whoever gave it is jealous).
And now that you mention it, it's possible that it started out as the Rat talking to Yuki, and then God stepped in. The "you're the last" line is debatable, because the Rat is not Yuki--the Rat is the Rat, and happens to live inside Yuki. Or so we were led to believe by the image of a rat talking to Yuki. So it's possible that now that the Rat is leaving, he refers to Yuki as "you." But then he might not know that Yuki was the last one to be released from the curse, but then again, he might have been saying, "You're the last one I'll possess."
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That seems only fair. ^^ (For the record, although I keep noting the "suki" thing, it's only really bothered me in vol. 14. As you let me hash out at length. ^^;)
I think I'm just inclined towards "beautiful" because it has more flexible connotations--it may be an entirely personal thing, but when I hear "pretty" I immediately assume it refers to physical attractiveness. (On the flip side, I can read "ugly" as either physical or emotional when it's applied to a person.) And as I'm typing I remember that I tend to think of Tohru as, if not plain, then as very ordinary compared to the Sohmas. I definitely agree with your take on Akito's reason for calling her ugly.
I've always read that last conversation to/with Yuki as "you're the last to be freed", as God takes the Rat spirit away. Except that now I'm not sure why God or the Rat would thank Yuki for keeping the promise, but the "goodbye" has to be directed at him... Oh, so confusing.
Either way, I agree that the animal spirits are separate entities that have been sharing the 12shi's bodies all this time. (Yay for having a decisive opinion! ^^)
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Thanks for reminding me about that discussion! Wow, that takes me back.
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