I should totally be headed to bed right now, but this topic is on my mind and sort of refuses to geroff. I can only hope to dislodge it through writing
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What do you require in a 'strong' female character? Emotional Resilience. This is why Athena appealed more to me that Starbuck on BSG.
What traits do you personally value in the characters whom you find especially sympathetic? Personal and ethical conviction, intelligence, makes well-intentioned mistakes, cares for others.
Do you also tend to be more drawn to characters of the opposite sex? Yes and no. A lot of my favorite characters are male, but its as you said: they're more of them and they're hot. ;) On the other hand, I intentionally seek out female characters and there are now quite a few I adore.
Can you think of any really fabulous (but not especially badass) female characters to cheer me up? Hmm... off the top of my head, some of my favorite "not especially badass" comic book women include: Death and Lyta Hall in Sandman; Ma and Maxine Hunkel, Jesse Chambers, Joan Garrick, and Molly Maynne in Justice Society of America; the ladies of The Golden Age; Lana Lang and Alura (the women in the current World of New Krypton
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I really need to look into Gotham Central. I have been meaning to for the longest time, and I've heard such good things.
I have heard of many of these characters before, but even JSA, which I've come to love, can only spare little tidbits of space on the page for each character. I wish it were more, because of the women you mention, I seriously love Ma Hunkel and would read all kinds of Ma Hunkel stories. She's such a singularity in comics, now that she's been resurrected, so to speak.
When I say "strong female character" I usually mean strong at something (badass, strong-willed, etc.) but I understand what you mean . A woman doesn't have to have the same character traits as a man to be strong. I should stop using this phrase in this context
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What a good suggestion about Russian literature! I've been surrounded by books but unable to think of what I want to read lately. Russian literature sounds like it might be what I was craving. And I've never read Onegin, so maybe I should start there!
obvious comment is obvioustempestsarekindNovember 5 2009, 18:10:19 UTC
Martha Jones! I suppose that the ladies of Doctor Who can be described (and have been described!) as "plucky," etc. (Doesn't Ten refer to Donna as the plucky young girl who helps him solve crimes, in "The Unicorn and the Wasp"? I love that she looks like she wants to deck him after this description.) But what I like about them is that actually, they get on with the business of saving the world not by being especially kickass (in the literal sense, or even in the "takes no guff" sense) (did I just say "guff"? How old am I?), but by discovering their own personal strengths and using those.
I want to come back to the question of "relating" to characters at some point, when I'm not half-starved and sleep-deprived (hence the wackiness of this comment), because I *don't* often feel that I relate to characters, male or female, but I sympathize with many, and I want to think about how that breaks down along gender lines, if it does. And I definitely need to think about what I look for in heroines
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Re: obvious comment is obviousthepresidentrixNovember 9 2009, 20:20:52 UTC
I think the women of Dr. Who are, as a class, great examples, actually. I certainly don't mind that they're brave or that they come through in a crisis, but I appreciate that they don't all seem obviously wired to do that from birth, y'know? They have to grow into their strength the way, imo, male characters get to do more often
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Re: obvious comment is obvioustempestsarekindNovember 9 2009, 20:36:26 UTC
there's this fear that when you put a woman front and center, she can't be just anywoman, she has to be a kind of superwoman, or she doesn't merit that focus.
Oh, I totally agree! I think this happens a lot, though I'm not entirely sure *why*: I think sometimes it is a feeling that to be "interesting," a woman has to be "more like a man" (er, who let Henry Higgins in here?). And then sometimes I think it stems from worry about showing women in the "weaker" position, doing stereotypically female things that are negatively inflected. I've had this conversation with a friend, who has somewhat rigid notions of what it means to be a feminist: things like getting married, or wanting kids, or shaving your legs, are all a part of the way women are shaped by the patriarchy, rather than valid personal choices that one might make. Sometimes I think that modern storytelling media are often still stuck in that mindset. And a lot of female characters have to bear the weight of that.
So, I agree--more "assailable" female characters, please!
What about your namesake Laura Roslin before she got stone-cold-crazy? She's not a warm vulnerable type, but neither is she a karate-chopping badass, and I know I wish I could professor the way she presidents.
The women in shows I like do tend to be no-nonsense (though not unfeeling or uncomplex) types, along the lines of Veronica or Beckett or Scully. But there are exceptions, like Olive Snook or Lilly from HIMYM. They're major supporting roles rather than protagonists, I suppose, but excellent and flawed "strong" female characters.
I wonder if the problem is that the men you and I love are being written to appeal to women, but the women are being written to appeal to men?
By the way, I wore your necklace today, or rather my necklace. It got yet another compliment!
I was thinking of making another companion post in which I list some female characters that I have really bonded with, and whom I see as exceptions to this trend (?), and Roslin would definitely have made the list. She certainly turns out to be steely enough (and I have no problem whatsoever with women who rise to the occasion or are adaptable in a crisis!) but it was totally believable, especially back in the beginning, that Roslin had never been an especially aggressive or power-hungry person and would have been content with a much more modest life. Plus, I loved the way the show permitted Roslin to be visibly nervous and even to giggle or to cry at certain times. Her character didn't seem specifically purposed to shout at you, 'Look! A woman who is not a weenie! (Even if that is all that we know about her!)' like some other characters seem to me to be doing
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Comments 9
What traits do you personally value in the characters whom you find especially sympathetic? Personal and ethical conviction, intelligence, makes well-intentioned mistakes, cares for others.
Do you also tend to be more drawn to characters of the opposite sex? Yes and no. A lot of my favorite characters are male, but its as you said: they're more of them and they're hot. ;) On the other hand, I intentionally seek out female characters and there are now quite a few I adore.
Can you think of any really fabulous (but not especially badass) female characters to cheer me up? Hmm... off the top of my head, some of my favorite "not especially badass" comic book women include: Death and Lyta Hall in Sandman; Ma and Maxine Hunkel, Jesse Chambers, Joan Garrick, and Molly Maynne in Justice Society of America; the ladies of The Golden Age; Lana Lang and Alura (the women in the current World of New Krypton ( ... )
Reply
I have heard of many of these characters before, but even JSA, which I've come to love, can only spare little tidbits of space on the page for each character. I wish it were more, because of the women you mention, I seriously love Ma Hunkel and would read all kinds of Ma Hunkel stories. She's such a singularity in comics, now that she's been resurrected, so to speak.
Reply
Reply
Reply
I want to come back to the question of "relating" to characters at some point, when I'm not half-starved and sleep-deprived (hence the wackiness of this comment), because I *don't* often feel that I relate to characters, male or female, but I sympathize with many, and I want to think about how that breaks down along gender lines, if it does. And I definitely need to think about what I look for in heroines ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Oh, I totally agree! I think this happens a lot, though I'm not entirely sure *why*: I think sometimes it is a feeling that to be "interesting," a woman has to be "more like a man" (er, who let Henry Higgins in here?). And then sometimes I think it stems from worry about showing women in the "weaker" position, doing stereotypically female things that are negatively inflected. I've had this conversation with a friend, who has somewhat rigid notions of what it means to be a feminist: things like getting married, or wanting kids, or shaving your legs, are all a part of the way women are shaped by the patriarchy, rather than valid personal choices that one might make. Sometimes I think that modern storytelling media are often still stuck in that mindset. And a lot of female characters have to bear the weight of that.
So, I agree--more "assailable" female characters, please!
Reply
The women in shows I like do tend to be no-nonsense (though not unfeeling or uncomplex) types, along the lines of Veronica or Beckett or Scully. But there are exceptions, like Olive Snook or Lilly from HIMYM. They're major supporting roles rather than protagonists, I suppose, but excellent and flawed "strong" female characters.
I wonder if the problem is that the men you and I love are being written to appeal to women, but the women are being written to appeal to men?
By the way, I wore your necklace today, or rather my necklace. It got yet another compliment!
Reply
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