Meta: Questions about FanLib's FAQ; or Who With the What Now?
ETA2:
Fan Lib has now taken their FAQ down with the following explanation:
We're currently revising our Frequently Asked Questions page. A new version will be posted soon. In the meantime, please feel free to email us at support@fanlib.com or post to the forums.
Thank you.
I have edited this post so that the links to the questions go to the comments in which I pasted each question. I regret not having screencapped the FAQ while it was up, but my comments are simple cut and paste jobs in blockquotes; I changed nothing.
Also for those of you who are starting with this post and are now wondering how to get involved in a dialog with Chris Williams, Henry Jenkins (an academic fan and the author of Textual Poachers) is going to be interviewing Mr. Williams. Professor Jenkins has asked for questions here.
In a comment to a previous post of mine, Chris Williams, the co-founder and CEO of FanLib, linked me to FanLib's FAQ and told me to consider the dialog open. Therefore, I have gone through the FAQ question by question and expressed my concerns and asked my questions about it.
Since I hardly claim to speak for all of fandom--honestly, who would want to?--I'd like anyone who has a question about the FAQ to participate in this discussion, either here or linked back to their own LJs. Please feel free to pimp this wherever you think it's appropriate. This guy says he wants a dialog and I really think we need to give him the opportunity to see what our concerns are and the chance to answer them.
Feel free to disagree with me or with anyone else who posts here. However, I do ask that the conversation remain as civil as possible. Snark and sarcasm are fine, but I draw the line at threats of violence and/or extreme personal slurs.
I've set this up so there's a comment thread for each FAQ question, both to make it easier for people to address the questions they feel need addressing and for Mr. Williams to respond. Hopefully things will work better that way.
So here we go!
What's this site about?
OK first of all, the language here sounds forced in that way that anyone older sounds as they try to appeal to a young audience, but maybe that's just me, so I'll move along here.
You say the site is an "awesome place for fan fiction." Well, actually, it's not. Not only is it unattractive--even with Adblock Plus on--it's also poorly organized and difficult to navigate. I could easily name half a dozen fee-free, ad-free archives that are far more user friendly. Looking at FanLib, I find myself wondering if you've actually looked at any of the other online archives and seen how they are organized.
You say that your mission is to bring fan fiction into the mainstream. Never mind that I don't think you ever asked the fan fiction community if they wanted to be brought into the mainstream and I certainly haven't seen any great demand from the community for something like this. What I really want to know is, do you honestly think that the mainstream is ready for fan fiction? I'm not talking about the legality of it, but, for example are MGM and the SciFi Channel and Acme Shark--not to mention David Hewlett and Joe Flanigan--really ready for NC-17, BDSM John/Rodney slash? Are they even ready for PG-13 John/Rodney romance that fades to black after the first kiss? It's one thing for the people behind shows that are the target of fanfic to know that it exists and another thing for fanfic to be loudly and visibly online backed by a company dedicated to recouping the millions of dollars invested in FanLib.
Finally, you mention the investment. Right there in the first question, one thing becomes perfectly clear. You're in this to make money. Not that I think there's anything wrong with making money, but I do question the way in which you plan to make that money. More on that later.
What is fan fiction?
Not a bad answer for the most part. The last sentence sounds forced and maybe even a little condescending, but that's a minor quibble.
Are you for profit?
And here it comes up in black and white. While I give you props for being upfront about it, I still have my reservations about the concept of making money off fanfic and even more doubts about a third party making money off fanfic writers' works. I ask again because it is not, in fact, answered in your FAQ: are you going to pay your writers or recompense them in any way? If so how much and in what way? If not, how can you justify making money off the hard work of other people without sharing that profit with them?
I suppose the answer is that you provide an "awesome" place for fanfic writers. I addressed the lack of awesomeness above. What other services do you provide; what is it that you do "really well"?
Also, I would suspect that many of us think that there is nothing evil at all in making a profit in general. Your first sentence not only manages to sound defensive, but also seems designed to put the readers on the defensive side.
Aren't other fan fiction sites non-profit?
This is totally disingenuous. LJ, My Space, Greatest Journal, and other blogging/journaling/social networking sites provide just that service: social networking. They are not there to bring fan fiction to the attention of anyone nor were they set up with the creation or archiving of fan fiction in mind. Even the fan-owned, fan-run JournalFen is simply an LJ-clone networking site for fans and not an archival site. At The-Force.net, fan fiction is one small aspect of a much larger community. FanLib, on the other hand is built around the idea of archiving, discussing, reviewing fan fiction and bringing it to the attention of various media groups, and nothing else.
I don't know about ff.net as I was unable to find an FAQ on their site. I would be surprised if they actually make a profit, but again, I have no way of knowing. If someone cares to address this in the comments, I'd be grateful.
Is fan fiction legal?
OK all I can say here is: wow! Given your breezy confidence, one would almost assume that you had contacted each and every one of the people who own the copyrights to all 2216 (leaving out original fiction) of the fandoms represented on your site. I'd dearly love to see what Christopher Tolkien, for example, had to say about the large LotR section of fanfic or how J.K. Rowling responded to the knowledge that you are encouraging people to post adult-oriented Harry Potter fanfic.
All sarcasm aside, the first thing I thought while reading this was hey, what if they're wrong? It has been assumed for many years that the reason fanfic writers have not been sued by the copyright holders is that while indulging in intellectual theft, fanfic writers are not cutting into any actual corporate profits. We don't make money off them and in fact we often spend money on their products. Of course if someone were to make money off of fanfic and the copyright holders got wind of it, they might lose their habit of ignoring us.
So what if you're wrong? What if some copyright holder with deep pockets and an eager legal team decides to make you and fiction by one of your writers into a test case. You would, of course, bring your own legal team to bear and protect both yourself and the fanfic writer in question, right?
Now obviously I'm not a lawyer, but reading this bit from your TOS makes me think the answer to my question is "not so much."
You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless FanLib, its parent corporation, officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any and all claims, damages, obligations, losses, liabilities, costs or debt, and expenses (including but not limited to attorney's fees) arising from: (i) Your use of and access to the Website; (ii) Your violation of any term of these TOS; (iii) Your violation of any third party right, including without limitation any copyright, property, or privacy right; or (iv) any claim that one of Your Submissions caused damage to a third party. This defense and indemnification obligation will survive these TOS and Your use of the Website.
It looks to me as if, should a fan fiction writer who archives her work on your site be sued, she's on her own.
But that's okay because you've reassured everyone that "Suing or telling all their most avid customers to take everything down is simply not in their interests." That should be good enough, right?
But, it's like file sharing on Napster, right?
What on earth does that have to do with anything? File sharing via a non-paying site such as Limewire or Kaazza is stealing the actual media file. Writing fan fiction is a reworking of someone's intellectual property. This question looks like it was thrown in to muddy the waters.
Is fan fiction just better off kept under wraps?
I don't even know where to start here. It is unbelievably arrogant to assume that the community wants to be dragged out into the limelight and that your company is the one to do it. You make it sound like you're providing a long needed service when in fact, the fanfic community itself can't decide where it stands on this issue.
I will not try to summarize that debate here although I suspect you don't know the pros or cons because I don't think you have any real clue about the fanfic community. If you do need someone do explain the various stances, ask in your reply and I'm sure we can rustle up some links to past discussions.
"In 2007, the powers that be who once battled fanfic authors are ready to take a new approach.
Who with the what now? Never mind the over the top melodramatic tone of this sentence, because I've gotta ask: Is Anne Rice really okay with Vampire Chronicles fanfic now? Robin Hobb's cool with it? Christopher Tolkien? Are J. K. Rowling and Warner Brothers now good with the idea of adult Harry Potter fanfic? Well let's all break out the champagne and have a toast!
Seriously, what I suspect is that the few copyright holders that you have connections with have seen the advertising potential of your site and are willing to overlook the complicated legalities in favor of making quick buck. When someone who you didn't consult with takes umbrage, it isn't your site alone that will suffer the consequences.
Will I get in trouble for posting here?
Your answer boils down to "we really don't know but we want you to think that you won't." There is business incentive for them to shut a site like yours down; you're making money off their product, in many cases without their permission. Sounds like incentive to me.
Do I lose my rights or ownership in my work by posting here?
Another incredibly complex question answered with an amazingly casual reply. The answer in and of itself isn't bad, but admitting that the legality of fanfiction in question undermines your whole money making venture.
Why do you need any rights to my work? Are you going to steal it to make money?
Yet another handwaving reply. Digging a little deeper in your TOS reveals that yes, what you say here is true--the writer can refuse you the use of her fiction by removing it. However, nowhere in that section does it say that you have to inform her if you chose to sell the work in question as, for example, a part of an anthology. And that "in connection with the Website" thing is meaningless; if properly presented, anything could be considered to be in connection with the website.
What are your connections to media and publishing companies?
Your top five fandoms are: Harry Potter, Stargate: SG1, CSI, Lord of the Rings and Stargate: Atlantis. And yet in your answer to this question, you do not mention the copyright holders of any of those works, at least two of whom have issues with fan works based on the material they own. You also say you want to act as a bridge between fans and the media companies. I'll get into this more below, but I'd like to know what on earth makes you think that you are qualified to "advocate for and understand the concerns" of fan fiction writers/readers?
Do you collect my personal information?
Standard answer to a standard question, nothing to see here.
Are you fans?
You say you are avid fans and yet, the very fact that you don't understand that fan fiction writers/readers occupy a certain niche in more general fandom causes me to question you on that one. One fan film doesn't give you the right to speak for a community that rarely agrees on anything. I suspect that you are all fans of various TV shows or movies or books, and that you watch/read them and maybe even discuss them with your friends. And yay, that's cool; I'm that kind of SF Giants fan. And it's even okay that none of you write fic; countless cool and fantastic members of the fan fiction community don't write and still contribute a hell of a lot to the community.
You do read fan fiction though, right? I'd like to ask all the members of your executive board a few questions: What is your favorite fandom? Who are your favorite fan fiction writers in that fandom and who do you really hope will post her work on FanLib so other people can discover her? Which stories would you recommend to someone who didn't already read in that fandom if you were trying to convince them to get into the fandom? What do you look for when you read fan fiction? What makes a piece of fan fiction work for you? How do you feel about non-canonical romantic story lines, slash or het? What's your favorite genre of fan fiction?
Finally, I'm going to address the comment you made in my LJ and in the LJs of several other people who expressed their dismay with your venture. You said:
hey everyone,
I'm Chris one of the founders of FanLib> it's really late and i have been working on the site all day. I'm exhausted but i just realized what was going on here and all of the commentsts are making me sick. we're a small company with 10 emplyees who work 16 hours a day to try and make a great website. we're real people! with feelings and everything! we have been working on this and dreaming about it for a long time and you are just here to shit on it without giving us a chance. i care deeply about what you think but this is crazy. we're good people here and you make us sound like we're an evil corporation or the govt. sending your kids to war or something. we really are all about celebrating fan fiction and fan fiction readers and writers. im sorry this is so short and please excuse the fact that i am cutting and pasting this across a bunch of ljs but i gotta get some sleep.
chris
Reading this, I find it hard to believe you could manage an orgy in a brothel let alone manage a business. It is appallingly unprofessional on your part and it's as if you don't understand that you are replying to the very people you want to convince that your business is the future of fan fiction fandom. We're the people you should be wooing, whose concerns you should be allaying with reason and logic. Instead you give us a "omg I'm so hurt" diatribe that would be, while still obnoxious, more understandable if it came from a five year old.
I have no doubt that you think you are "good people." I personally think your response reads as if you were dead certain you had this vast, untouched pile of gold to skim off whenever you liked and then suddenly, you realized that it has round-the-clock dragon protection and hey, those dragons breathe fire! Nevertheless, that doesn't make you evil on the level of George Bush and to suggest that we think so is absurd and insulting, not to mention ridiculously over the top.
With this comment, you did far more damage to your venture than I could ever do. I can sit here and bitch about what I see as an attempt to make money off the effort of others without paying them anything in return, and people can listen to me or not. But when you come up with something that shows what looks like utter contempt for the people you claim you want "advocate for and understand" with just about every word...well let's just say, that's one hell of a first impression.
Anyway....
I understand that you're busy, so feel free to take your time replying. To make it easier for you and for the rest of the people participating in this dialog, I'm going to structure this post so that there will be a comment thread for each FAQ question. Maybe you could take one a day or even to assign someone else from the company to speak for it and for you.
I wanted a dialog and you chose to link me to the FAQ and told me to consider the dialog open.
I have done so.
I await your response.
ETA: As I rather expected, Mr. Williams has chosen not to take part in this discussion here and at this time. I understand that he's a busy man, however I am disappointed that he gave up the opportunity to discuss these issues after inviting me to consider the dialog open. I'd still like to see what anyone in fandom has to say about this FAQ, so feel free to continue commenting.