Persecuting headgear

[ddstory]

What's a burqa, and does it have a place in our place? That's the question that a number of European societies have been pondering about for some time. In Germany for example, some province ministers of the interior have decided to ban the controversial headgear as part of the measures to counter Islamic radicalization. Other countries already have

Comments

[dreamville_bg]

[luzribeiro]

Poor oppressed Muslim men. They just cannot control their urges whenever they see a square inch of female flesh. But they are not to blame - Allah made them this way! So how about punishing women for the failures of a pervert god.

[mahnmut]

Religious ones.

[ddstory]

'Cept, ninjas had those awesome sabres, and those deadly shuriken that they could throw at anyone who messed with them.

[johnny9fingers]

[abomvubuso]

They both look hydrodynamic!

[johnny9fingers]

Methinks clever Muslim women are going to start to get a rubber fetish.

[ddstory]

Would there be consequences for the man on the right if he decides to bathe without that suit?
Would there be consequences for the the woman on the left if she decides to bathe without that suit?

If you, or whoever originally came up with this picture, can find the answers to the above two questions on their own, then they'd know where the problem some people are having with this issue, is coming from.

[mahnmut]

Yet another example of religious serving as a tool for oppression. I'll never tire of saying this. Ideology, be it political, national and/or religious, is the bane of humanity.

[airiefairie]

But what is left there without ideas and ideals?

[mahnmut]

Reason.

[johnny9fingers]

Which must always be tempered by morals, ethics, and humanity; else many sins can be committed in the name of reason: the elimination of the unproductive may have reasonable economic arguments all of which are wrong.

[nairiporter]

We here speak of social norms being imprinted into women's mentality from early age, confining them to a narrow set of rules beyond which they cannot escape, unless they should risk being ostracised - and then those women believing they are making choices freely, while actually being confined within those social frames. Muslim women and headgear being the example

[wight1984]

I was talking (via facebook) to a French woman who supported the Burqa ban.

She wanted to stop women being socialised into oppressive lifestyles by banning the Burqa.

I did suggest that this was akin to banning make-up, cosmetic surgery, and pornography in order to combat western oppression of women... but she just agreed that those things should be banned.

French liberalism and secularism has gone down a strange route.

[johnny9fingers]

I did suggest that this was akin to banning make-up, cosmetic surgery, and pornography in order to combat western oppression of women... but she just agreed that those things should be banned.

Pretty much standard second-wave feminism. Not quite S.C.U.M. nor separatist, as many second wave feminists were, but still fairly mainstream thought for the times and the movement. This sort of thinking was prevalent in feminist circles until the '90's, and still provokes spats in the community. Get second wavers on to the topic of transgenderism and you won't believe the obloquy. It's quite terrifying.

[garote]

Agreed that it lasted until about the 90's, as far as I could tell on the West coast of the United States. Then it crashed into almost nothing in a brief window, as the generation raised by 60's-era parents got pushed aside by the generation raised by 70's/80's-era parents. :D

Interesting to see it still going strong in other parts of the world, apparently...

[johnny9fingers]

Well, we have a winner:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-police-make-woman-remove-burkini-on-nice-beach

'...she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.' Pretty vague I suppose. I wonder when it is going to be challenged in a higher court? Well they better start with the nuns too. And the priests. Or but because they are Christian or Jewish they have good morals?

Sorry, even though I'm not Islamic, and I don't like the way Islam treats folk, especially women, and I loathe Islam's anti-gay stance too: I think this is racist bigotry enshrined in law.

[nairiporter]

Still more to your point:

France's burqa ban upheld by human rights court: European judges declare that preservation of a certain idea of 'living together' was legitimate aim of French authorities.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/france-burqa-ban-upheld-human-rights-court

French Muslim student banned from school for wearing long black skirt: Headteacher of school in north-east France felt the long skirt ‘conspicuously’ showed religious affiliation, flouting rules of secularity
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/28/french-muslim-student-banned-from-school-for-wearing-long-skirt

Burka rage as female lawyer rips veil off Muslim woman in French clothes shopReply

[johnny9fingers]

I don't want to Godwin myself here, so I'll shut up.

[dexeron]

A bit of a diversion, but I find it very interesting how different places have come up with different ideas on how to deal with the thorny issue of religion vs. the state. In France, they ostensibly have no problem with citizens wearing headscarves or other clothing of religious expression in public (this more recent burka ban notwithstanding) but do not allow it in public schools - even for the students. Here, we don't allow it for teachers and other representatives of state authority (though many flaunt this rule) but it is considered a violation of rights if students are not allowed to wear religious clothing (so long as it's not disruptive.) Both nations would consider their regulations "secular" in nature, and I'm pretty sure that both consider the other's regulations a step too far in one direction or the other