Persecuting headgear

[ddstory]

What's a burqa, and does it have a place in our place? That's the question that a number of European societies have been pondering about for some time. In Germany for example, some province ministers of the interior have decided to ban the controversial headgear as part of the measures to counter Islamic radicalization. Other countries already have

Comments

[johnny9fingers]

Well, we have a winner:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-police-make-woman-remove-burkini-on-nice-beach

'...she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.' Pretty vague I suppose. I wonder when it is going to be challenged in a higher court? Well they better start with the nuns too. And the priests. Or but because they are Christian or Jewish they have good morals?

Sorry, even though I'm not Islamic, and I don't like the way Islam treats folk, especially women, and I loathe Islam's anti-gay stance too: I think this is racist bigotry enshrined in law.

[nairiporter]

Still more to your point:

France's burqa ban upheld by human rights court: European judges declare that preservation of a certain idea of 'living together' was legitimate aim of French authorities.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/france-burqa-ban-upheld-human-rights-court

French Muslim student banned from school for wearing long black skirt: Headteacher of school in north-east France felt the long skirt ‘conspicuously’ showed religious affiliation, flouting rules of secularity
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/28/french-muslim-student-banned-from-school-for-wearing-long-skirt

Burka rage as female lawyer rips veil off Muslim woman in French clothes shopReply

[johnny9fingers]

I don't want to Godwin myself here, so I'll shut up.

[dexeron]

A bit of a diversion, but I find it very interesting how different places have come up with different ideas on how to deal with the thorny issue of religion vs. the state. In France, they ostensibly have no problem with citizens wearing headscarves or other clothing of religious expression in public (this more recent burka ban notwithstanding) but do not allow it in public schools - even for the students. Here, we don't allow it for teachers and other representatives of state authority (though many flaunt this rule) but it is considered a violation of rights if students are not allowed to wear religious clothing (so long as it's not disruptive.) Both nations would consider their regulations "secular" in nature, and I'm pretty sure that both consider the other's regulations a step too far in one direction or the other

[nairiporter]

Which all tells me that people have no idea what they hell they are doing. :-)

[johnny9fingers]

Reasonable inference.

[nairiporter]

Not really, but thank you anyway. :-)

[johnny9fingers]

Well at the moment I'm certainly of the opinion that a lot of folk don't know what they're doing.

But I imagine we all think that way some of the time.

[wight1984]

I think a lot depends on what you think the point and purpose of secularism is.

My support for secularism has always been on the basis that it increases religious freedom, which I think is a good thing. This attitude tends to back the American model.

However, the history of French secularism has it's origins in state conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church and thus is more hostile towards religion.

French secularism is conservative (about preserving traditional values), American secularism is liberal (about increasing freedom).