Comments | snsd_metacrack: Everything you can do, I can do . . . the same? funnier?

greywing in snsd_metacrack

Everything you can do, I can do . . . the same? funnier?

Jan 13, 2010 12:41

I've been thinking about this since SBS Gayo Daejun. It was the first time the approach in gendering stages and performances really hit me because there were comments at the time about which of the "change" stages people enjoyed more: the girls covering guys' songs or the guys covering girls' songs.

( Boys and Girls weren't created equal? Or, gender issues are close to my heart. )

group: sweets, artist: amber, group: kara, artist: minzy, artist: boa, group: aaa, group: shinee, choreography, dance, group: brown eyed girls, show: america's best dance crew, group: children of empire/ze:a, group: t-ara, group: 2pm, artist: gahee, group: 4minute, show: sbs gayo daejun, group: lady, show: golden disk awards, artist: heechul, group: 2ne1, group: super junior, artist: hyomin, beware pedobear, group: c-ute, member: hyoyeon, show: mbc star dance battle, artist: hyunah, fans/fandom, member: yuri, group: snsd, artist: jokwon, gender issues, artist: nicole, group: i-13, artist: g-dragon

Comments 49

I told you I'm only good at responding! arbitrary_greay January 13 2010, 22:53:28 UTC

The gender issues begin before that. One of the biggest pieces of "evidence" for Hyoyeon's Best Dancer spot is that she was so good that they had to put her in the boys' dance classes. Even though they weren't in heels, Rino clearly didn't put f(x) through the same workout she did with SHINee.
So when the girls do boys' dances, they usually have to push themselves to the limit just to pull them off, and even then rarely are they as crisp and coordinated as the original.(Sorry Sorry excepted)
Your mixed reaction to ZE:A's covers might come from a feeling that they aren't living up to their potential just swinging their hips or flicking their legs when they could be breaking it down. I mentioned this before with Jpop, where the talent divide is even more exaggerated. The guys are expected to be perfect all-around males, good at anything they try.(Except maybe vocals) The girls, on the other hand, are expected to be untalented. Wota want to watch their girls grow and develop in their talents over time, with parental pride as they ( ... )

Re: I told you I'm only good at responding! greywing January 14 2010, 00:55:19 UTC

So what would it mean if girls went out there and instead of trying to prove talent, simply parodied the guys' dances? Not to be unintentionally funny--HyoTae caught dancing to "Again & Again" was unintentionally funny--but to actively parody it? Kind of like the music festival where the girls cross-dressed and had fun with an old song, but to do it with a song now? I.e. to not be so srs bsns. Or even to "copy" the fanservice things that guys do? Lifting up shirts to show off chocolate abs? Muscle posturing, like "welcome to the gun show"? Ripping off shirts? The guys in turn love to exaggerate the fanservice moves that the girls do: waving, leaning over and coming up while feeling up their legs, the exaggeration of hips. It's funny because it points exactly to the workings of the business. This is the sort of gender divide that's curious to me ( ... )

Re: I told you I'm only good at responding! greywing January 14 2010, 00:59:11 UTC

Found it! i-13 - "One More Time" MV. Google didn't let me down!

Re: I told you I'm only good at responding! arbitrary_greay January 14 2010, 04:58:15 UTC

I re-watched the SBS GD videos in question, and only the numbers with SM boys bothered me. Gee was absolutely revolting and some of Shindong's Muzik posturings also bothered me.(Key not as much, because he was working it and we know that he takes this shit seriously) The rest of the covers were played pretty straight.(except Jokwon, but he's like Key) Mister and Bo Peep in particular were quite straightforward, although as you said Bo Peep pretty much parodies itself. But nothing like the Dirty Eyed Girls parody, and nothing like Gee, which made me nauseous just looking at any of them ( ... )

Thread 25

jailbaitjello January 14 2010, 09:44:46 UTC

Hrm, I've always wondered what reception a "bgirl" group (or one with that image) would get if one existed. I mean, there was definitely support for Amber. If a female group with a more androgynous/tomboy/bgirl image existed, backed by powerful dancing, what would be the reaction?

I for one might die of happiness.

arbitrary_greay January 14 2010, 16:05:14 UTC

2NE1?

jailbaitjello January 14 2010, 18:41:03 UTC

Hrm, I wouldn't say that they're androgynous or boyish so much as big attitude... but still in a very RAWR GIRL POWER kind of way.

greywing January 14 2010, 19:58:05 UTC

Agreed that I wouldn't peg 2NE1 as B-girl either. And 'cause I can't resist Beat Freaks love: B-girl Shorty!

I wonder why K-pop hasn't done a mixed gender group that's more B-boy/B-girl flavor. J-pop has something like that in AAA, no?

Thread 11

raingilded January 15 2010, 00:55:45 UTC

I think it's a happy middle between those 2 extremes, i.e. there are less butthurt fans/they're getting drowned out by SMTOWNLOVE! fans or at least fans who want to distance themselves from that madness, but even that SHINee-SNSD dance break brought out some cries of "SLUTS!", remember? It was less than SMTown Love, but not as bad as one would have expected, although that might be because SHINee fans are slightly older and also less vocal than Cassies/Elfs. For every fan at an SMTown concert cheering at suju-snsd interaction, there's probably one at home posting bitchy remarks along the lines of "Get away from my hubby, you X#%&^*#"

-r.

greywing January 15 2010, 01:16:08 UTC

Ah, that may be a better way to see it. Going back to the possessiveness of fans.

. . . But I still think a mixed gender group could work! It doesn't have to be split equally between the genders and it doesn't have to be a BIG group, but it could be marketed to appeal to both sides.

Fine, maybe I just want to see a mixed gender group.

raingilded January 15 2010, 01:17:31 UTC

It'd have to appeal to a more mature market, then, that's all I can say.

How's the tagging going?

-r.

why do I fail at html? greywing January 15 2010, 01:24:08 UTC

AAA's aiming for a pop group/europop feel.

Their latest single?: "Blood on Fire". They seem like standard idol fare to me.

. . . Hyo would probably fit into something like this. D:

Thread 11

arbitrary_greay January 15 2010, 18:14:16 UTC

Kind of tangent but might still be gender-issue-y? I just checked back on your WDS post, and while SM has sent all out their groups for one-time training/choreography/what have you, of the actual listed alumni there's only one guy. Where do the rest of SM's "best dancers" go?
The other explanation is that WDS in the end was completely Hyo's choice and had nothing to do with SM, which kind of supports the timeline you guys have constructed. But still, apparently the boys have a better avenue of training?

greywing January 15 2010, 21:39:13 UTC

I'd noted the lack of guys' names on that list too, and I don't know! I think it's interesting to see, too, that some names of the girls on the list are surprising because you don't see much overlap in style with what Hyo brings. HYJ was uncovering lots of weird conflicting information on top of that, like the school proclaiming to be established in 2000 but an article saying that Min and Hyo met in 1999 through WDS and each ended up scouted by JYP and SM respectively some time after that. It's just so weird. I haven't researched into the other dancers on the list, but Hyo's Little Winners competition days are sort of well known (thanks to actual footage on YT) and none of the other female dancers seem to have taken their dancing to that level or to that extent (Street Jam doesn't seem like a small thing and, eeeeee, Prepix has performed in several Street Jams). This competition aspect may be why HyoYeon's WDS background is emphasized while the other dancers in K-pop haven't been floated as WDS alumni like she has ( ... )