(Untitled)

[slidellra]

I wrote up and never quite completed a longish bit of due South language/communication meta/musing, and think I'm not going to a) finish all the trains of thought I started, and/or b) find my point, so instead I'm going to post it. I love the internets.

(What I wrote ended up very Kowalski and F/K-centric. Shocking.)

Comments

[malnpudl]

You are very smart. And insightful. And if my sinuses weren't about to explode out the front of my face, I'd go into much greater detail about exactly how and why. But for the moment I'll have to settle for: OOH! COOL!

[slidellra]

I very much disapprove of your sinuses treating you so badly. I will send them a sternly worded note.

DS is very OOH! COOL!

[chikan4]

Um, I feel like I just dropped in on a master's-level course on Ray and Fraser. Which, wheee! But my brain is tired.

Also, FWIW, I've always thought he says, "Sure--what's a posture?"

Go you! Excellent meta.

[slidellra]

Why say something simply when you can say it really confusingly, that what I always say.

Grrr. Maybe.

Thank you kindly! *curtseys*

[etcetera_cat]

Eeee... due South!

*kidnaps RayK and runs off with him*

Um, you wanted intelligent discussion? ...oh.

[slidellra]

HEE! *kidnaps you and runs off with you*

[etcetera_cat]

YAY *calls into work kidnapped*

[umbrella_half]

Awesome! Yes, thinky, language meta. I like it muchly. I shall steal your brain away and keep it in a jar on my desk. And then marry it and have meta!babies. And then get locked away for cruelty to brains.

And now, (a little more) coherently:

I love the language of the show. All the puns and plays and malapropisms. And Ray's use of 'queer'. I was having a really interesting talk with matsudeko about how the language differences in the Japanese dubbing of the show works.

I think a lot of the Canadian/American interaction, and the humour that arises from it, is based on language. Turnbull's and Fraser's too-literal take on things enforce the Canada-as-logical/America-as-illogical stereotype, and Fraser's verbosity when compared with Ray's malapropisms go with the whole Canada=too clever/America=too dumb idea.

Then, like china_shop mentioned, there's that bit when Ray is trying to teach Fraser more colloquial language, and he calls them 'houseboys

[slidellra]

Hee! I will keep a very close eye on my brain. And maybe a padlock.

Oh, I would be very curious to hear about how the Japanese dubbing altered the show and the show's word play.

*nodsnods* Too a certain extent I take it for granted; it's just how the show IS. And then I compare it to other shows, and wow. DS is obsessed with language.

It is interesting to contrast how fraught Ray's relationship with language is compared to when the situation is somewhat reversed and he's teaching Fraser. Fraser does not angst over his colloquialism failures at all, and seems to resist using slang correctly. There's no way somebody that good with language is really so bad at slang.

Absolutely on fanfic focusing our interest on how they speak and what it means. I want their voices, I do.

I'm good! I'm making cupcakes for M2's birthday and letting the internet eat my brain (padlock! Where is the padlock!) and utterly failing to write fic. How're you?

[umbrella_half]

Re. Japanese: First, a quick language lesson:

There are two fairly distinct styles of speech in Japanese. The first is called the 'desu/masu' style, because the verbs all end in 'masu', and the verb 'to be' is desu. This is all formal and generally used when you talk to superiors, teachers, respected people or just people you don't know. The second is called the 'da' style, because the verb 'to be' is da. It's a lot less formal, and used with friends, inferiors, or people you want to piss off.

OK so far?

On top of that, you've got several different pronouns for 'you' (like you do in French or Spanish or old English), and also 'I'. For 'you', there's anata, which is neutral, kimi, which is informal and is (generally) used to kids and people you're close to, like lovers, and then there's omae, which is very informal, quite rough/vulgar and only used by men (or very 'uncouth' women) to, generally, other men. Think of anata as the French vous, kimi as the French tu, and omae as another step down from that.

Then for 'I', there’s

[umbrella_half]

Damn, I lose at HTML.

More info on Japanese pronouns here

[keerawa]

Kowalski actually uses the individuality of language as a tool
I'd say the 0 to :-) is an example of Ray using language as a WEAPON.

I really like this post, and the multiple interpretations it brings up. Fraser, like most people with a large vocabulary, plays games with language. And while he occasionally invites others to play, I think it is sometimes a bit passive-aggressive.

And Elaine, yes, is a RELIEF for being so sane in the swirl of madness that is the 2-7.

[slidellra]

Oh, yeah. Fraser definitely does use language in a passive-aggressive manner at times. He's funny, the subtle ways he lets his frustration out.